At what buy-in does it stop being roulette?

vapandrei

vapandrei

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Hi,

I'm interested in knowing from the guys who play in a bit higher on the spectrum, at what buyins do the player-pool playing roulette (shoving 89s, pocket small pairs, etc) decreases significantly.

In low MTTs it's full and you have to take a gamble at some point if, especially if it's a turbo/hyper.

I want to set up a goal, but I need this bit of info, so any thoughts are welcomed.

I really think that higher buyins (ergo more to lose) makes people pay more poker and less bingo.

Thank you!
 
OzExorcist

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My experience is that you get good and bad players at all levels. Sure, you'll see a few less bad players the higher in stakes you go, but it's not like they disappear completely as soon as you make it to $200NL or something.

But you're thinking about this the wrong way IMO: being in games with people who are literally throwing away their chips with bad hands is a Very Good Thing if you're a good player. You don't want to avoid them - you want to be in as many games as possible with them. Will it feel a little bit like roulette sometimes, and will they occasionally suck out on you? Sure. But keep making good decisions against their bad ones, and you'll profit.
 
terryk

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I`ve played $215 buy-in tournaments and guys were shoving j-7,q-10,k+,,,,so,get used to it.Some players just don`t care about the amount on $ that is on the line.Learn to play the game of poker,and the types of players that sit at your table,because you have to deal with them.:damnmate:
 
infonazar

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There are different situations and players in poker, but I'm sure, patience is always key.
 
shinedown.45

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being in games with people who are literally throwing away their chips with bad hands is a Very Good Thing if you're a good player. You don't want to avoid them - you want to be in as many games as possible with them.
My thoughts exactly.

When I face those fishy ATC players, those who want to see the flop regardless of what they hold, I try not to get it all-in before the flop, villain is rarely folding to an all-in if he wants to see the flop, so I prefer to see a flop and go from there.


No need to get tricky with your premium hands against the fish, they are clueless, that is why they are called fish.

If you can't beat the clueless fish, how do you think you would fair against far better players?
 
vapandrei

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Thanks for the replies. As I said, I don't expect those kind of players to completely disappear at a specific buyin level, but decrease. That was my question.

Not looking to debate playing styles or place myself above bingo players. Let's say I was foung a survey among players who played low qnd higher buyins.
 
charlesdenis

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no use, in all situations you see crazy players, some because they are bad and others who play just for fun. In turbo tournaments you will see quite all-in so in my opinion it does not pay much.
and also agree with the OzExorcist: being in games with people who are literally throwing their chips with bad hands is a very good thing
 
PHX

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freerolls and anything under $1 especially if it's a turbo/hyper have a lot of bingo players

Above that you will get the odd one or two bingo players but not many not very often.


Even in freerolls bingo play is at start of tournament once we get 4 or 5 levels into tourney the bingo players bust as they run out of luck and tourney plays more standard.
 
kraemer

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In my experience You still find a certain amount of weak players unless You really play high stakes...
What changes is simply their country of origin....
Throwing away $100 in a session is simply not affordable for the average guy from slovenia, while You can find some germans, canadians or US players that can afford to lose such an amount...

And even if You end up at a table with only good plyaers that doesnt mean there will be no badbeats and suckouts... I don't think good poker is only about playing the top 10 starting hands...
There are many players that are good AND loose... Playing it tight is not the only way to go about it.

And once your opponents figure out that You are only choosing prime hands it becomes easy for them to figure out when they have you beaten with weaker hands... Then they will play weaker hands more often against You because it gets easy to tell if they should fold em or hold em after the flop...

As long as You cannot consitently make a profit on low stakes I see no good reason to move up...
Luck is still envolved, no matter how much money You bring to the table...
And the higher the limits the more likely it is that You have some real good players against You
who will have an edge on You even if luck would not be involved...
 
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Even when you play high limits you will not escape the players whom you described because the Brazilians are many at all limits! :)
 
rsimms

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Bingo poker used to get me real mad as well. Like a lot of things in poker, avoiding certain types of play/players can be evidence of a leak in your game. I started to study shoving/shove call ranges and one thing I realized is that part of the benefit of using bingo poker is because of the uncomfortable situation it puts us in, especially against weak players, and especially at the bubble. Who wants to call a shove with AK and lose to pocket ducks? It sucks.

My advice would be to studying bingo poker; shoving ranges, playing with a short stack. Embrace the roulette poker and don't be afraid of losing! Use it to bully players, and be that frustrating player you don't want to play against.
 
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I was asking myself the same question. But I guess you're right: If you can't handle erratic play, it will be difficult to take advantage of these players on higher levels. I guess I will just have to keep on struggling for a while until I get a grip on this type of play of so many players.
 
TeUnit

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If you really are at "bingo" tables you should be happy, the goal of poker is to take money from the fish and if there a lot of them thats even better. Poker doesnt get easier at higher levels it gets harder. Embrace the fish and adjust.
 
8bod8

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The all-in games are roulette by definition.

All games have a surprise risk; someone that does not play by the rules, but I guess it gets less when the stakes go up/later in MTT's. Late in MTT's it comes back, either due to short stack, or dominant stacks; both playing ICM fold/shove tactics.
 
Brahyam89

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Despite all contravesy, the best remedy for this situation at all stakes is to properly adjust the way we play based off of the information we gather at the tables. There will always be "fish" or people willing to gamble at all stakes of poker because people come from different walks of life. A $10,000 buy-in might be crucial to one person when for someone else it could be pocket change. So ultimately, we need to focus on playing the best poker given our present situations.

Good luck!!!
 
NHequalsFU

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I haven't read all replies but you will get outdrawn and see bad play no matter the level you play at.
 
vapandrei

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Alright. Sadly no one seems to have observed the decrease curve per buyin.

From my experience, even the high prized freerolls make people more weary of pkaying insanely weak hands. Talking about the 10k freerolls on 888 and anything above level 40 there.


In MTTs at PS, from what I gathered, people start cari g a bit about their hands at 5USD+ (more at bounty builders, logically). Was curious, again, if anyone observed this trend goinh upwards.


I really don't need "oh, bingo players are gold for a pro player" or "you'll find them everywhere". I know this and I wasn't really going to get empty posts.


Thanks everyone!
 
Herkstwin

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I understand you wanted a survey kind of response to your question, but from the posts, we can see that not happening. What people are telling you is to go after the fish by playing good, solid poker - regardless of the buy-in. Do not resort to playing bingo with the fish. Study them, know when you have the odds in your favour/favor, then make them pay for their bad play.

Every poker article I have ever read about picking your table - if that is an option - is to find a table with the fish!!
 
purple714

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Buy in

I have played a few 10ks and am here to tell you the buy in doesn't matter to quite a few players. It's really amazing how people play sometimes. Even late in a tournament you get a lot of donks. If you want to win you have to be a grinder and suffer through them. You will get bad beats but in the long haul just play your own game and you will do well.:cool:
 
Z

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I have found that $5 SnG games tend to have a lot more poker and a lot less bingo.
 
Andymac37

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I've been playing Sitngos at medium stakes and there are plenty of bingo players. As some1 said u get them at all levels. Sometimes I watch wcopp or scoop and Sunday million final tables cards up on YouTube and some of the things u see are amateur hour. Obviously its easy to judge and u don't know what the pressure feels like at 1 of the main MTT final tables...anyway my point is there r fish, calling stations, NIT's and downright dough balls at every stakes
 
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