Accelerated heartrate - bluff or big hand?

[findus]

Hi chaps,

In Brunson's Supersystem, he states that the best tell he gets is by looking at the pulse in a players neck - an accelerated pulse means the player is bluffing.

However, in Mike Caro's Book of tells (and the videos), he emphasizes that an accelerated pulse means the player has a big hand, he is DEFINITELY NOT bluffing.

Two poker giants, opposite conclusions from the same tell.

Thoughts?

 

[ChuckTs]

I think this tell (it's pretty much the same tell as increased breathing rate) is player-dependent. For some it means that they're weak and are scared that you'll call, for others it's because they're excited to have such a big hand.

It's similar to the strength means weakness/weakness means strength tell, and the flipside of it (weakness means weakness/strength means strength). Some players bet really big with their big hands, and bet small or check with their weak ones, while others do the opposite.

Watch a hand where the tell pops up, and see what hands they show down, then take it from there.

I don't play much live anymore, but what I found was that more often than not the increased breathing/heart rate and shakey hands usually meant a bigger hand, while very quiet opponents who keep their hands as still as possible and don't utter a peep are usually bluffing. Then again it could just have been specific to the guys I used to play with.

 

[TubaMark316]

If you think about it, it's like a Catch-22 situation...

I mean, I agree with both, but it also depends on the person...

I mean, if I have a huge hand, I'm gonna probably go crazy on the inside and try to burst out into a frenzy...but on the other hand, I'm also gonna do that on a bluff...

It all comes down to the player and how he/she is playing...

For myself...it means I'm having a heart attack and need some damn money...

 

[phatjose]

Caro doesn't actually say anything about an accelerated pulse. He specifically mentions shaking hands as a release of tension because you are not really fearing a call. He also mentions that shortness or holding of breath is an indication of bluffing (Chapter 5 section IV labeled nervousness). In my experience, the shaking hands thing is hard to pin because I've seen sooooo many internet players whose hands always shake these days.

The two biggest tells I've seen in live play (I play mostly live btw) is watching people's reactions to the flop. If they glance at their chips right away, you know they hit a hand. If they bet the flop and then stare off into the distance, you know they hit their hand. These tells aren't 100% accurate, but they are a pretty good indicator of where you stand without having to throw any more money into the pot.

 

[arkadiy]

A thing I have realized pre-flop is the amount of time they take after looking at their cards.

A lot of times they will quickly put the cards back down, as if they've seen enough and know they are good. A common thing with people who wear glasses might also be taking the glasses off.

Not sure what else to say since everyone has different tells, each person is different.

 

[KingNothing4]

ya i would have to say it goes both ways, i know my pulse picks up on big hands trying to play it to maximize money being so excited and on bluffs because im so scared of getting caught...

 

[phatjose]

Oh, one other big tell I forgot about. If you see a flop of all one suit, and someone checks his cards, that is almost a dead give away that he did NOT hit the flush on the flop. Most people will remember their card number (ie 9) and the color of their cards, not necessarily the exact suit. Again though, if you are getting a read that the person that does this is a quality player, I would say he's sending off a fake tell.

 

[riverboatrat]

only thing you can do to be sure is to monitor each player and their hands individually, hind sight in poker is always good.

thing about poker is when youre not in a hand, try to put everyone else on a hand. while you are doing this, look for tells which may help you when you're in the hand

 

[findus]

All interesting answers

I agree with you all that their is a dimemma in this as it often depends on the player and I suppose the context, but one of the main thrusts of my post was how two legends of the game have two completely different 'it usually means...' takes - Caro, big hand; Brunson, bluff.

Phatjose, you're right, Caro doesn't actually say it in his book, but he does in his video of tells.

 

[narizblanco]

Online tells

Hi, I haven't played in a live game since 1984. Online there are 2 big indicators you are facing a huge hand. The individual who waits until the last second to make a big bet and the individual who instead of betting the max bets just enough to cover your stack.

 

[Ronaldadio]

It is all down to playing the player. That is why the pros suggest u change your play from time to time.

Think about it, it is similar to a person checking a flop. Normally, they are checking because they have very little, but this will be most of the time. Other ppl will bet almost every flop, hit or miss.

So it is a question of knowing your opponents.

The same general rule applies.

 

[Insomniac_1006]

I havn't read Caro's book of tells yet, but I can tell you that it is easy to see the heart rate in the neck of someone who is Not obese.

So men, if a woman sits down at your table and is hoping to throw you off your game by wear a tight, low cut shirt, look at up a little at her neck and watch her pulse. Beware the woman who wears a turtle neck shirt.

 

[wesrman]

tv

there a poker show on tv,(icant remember what its called) they monitor the players heart rates and the ones with the highest rates usually have good hands. i guess when u dont have a good hand u expect to lose so its nothing to get excited about....