A Lack of 'Pure Bluff'.

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DS3

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I admit I have no ‘pure bluff’ in my game.

I would like to hear from other players how bluff oriented they are and if this deficiency of mine is the weakness it is often portrayed to be?

Some points. Many times I’ve heard players say nothing excites them more than pulling off a pure bluff, but the concept does not excite me at all, even if I enjoy watching them play out. Recording and rewatching top flite MTTs, I’m aware some pros exhibit a great capacity for bluffing, while others do not.

After a few years of playing I believe progress comes when you accept your own playing style and play to your strengths. I can semi-bluff with some ease and also find no problem playing heads up with little more than I what I presume is the ‘high card’- again a form of semi bluffing if you will.

This noted, what I lack is any mode where, upon seeing a wet board, I feel inclined to tell a story, to represent the nuts. It simply never occurs to me!What makes this situation more amusing is I frequently see through someone trying to play such a bluff.

So while I envy those who can employ the pure bluff, are there other players like me who never feel compelled to attempt one themselves?
 
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Ianmacca99

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I like to bluff with equity and I'll only ever really bluff with nothing if I'm multi way in position and no one has shown any strength on multiple streets. You never had AK and completely bricked the flop and C bet to take it down and had to barrell the turn aswell or you talking of a bluff with junk? We shouldn't be opening or calling those type of hands in first place really
 
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On the flop and turn you should typically only bet with hands, that have at least some equity. With complete garbage is fine to just give up. On the river however things are per definition very black or white. Your hand is either best or not, and if you only ever bet the river for value, you make yourself very easy to play against.

Maybe this is not a problem, if you play against a bunch of gamblers, maniacs and drunks, who pay no attention to, what you are doing. But as soon as you face better opposition, it become a bit to easy for your opponents to not pay you off, if you basically have it every single time, you bet on the river.
 
Batarang96

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Stone-cold bluffing may be the most overrated tactic in poker. So many people go broke bluffing, because of greed, ego, or refusal to surrender a pot that they've put money into.

If your two bullets don't chase your opponent away by the River, then you need a DAMN GOOD reason to believe that your River bet will induce a fold. Small value bets, and small pots (compared to your stack size) are often ideal. Because that way, you avoid losing the most chips. And this game is all about minimizing risk.

Just like there's no shame in folding, there's no shame in checking the river.
 
Transcendence

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I don't like bluffing. Bluffing we can lose everything and win not much. If you bluff, you lose 100%. Bluffing is stupid. I admit it's only half a bluff.
 
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prizzy711

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Stone-cold bluffing may be the most overrated tactic in poker. So many people go broke bluffing, because of greed, ego, or refusal to surrender a pot that they've put money into.

If your two bullets don't chase your opponent away by the River, then you need a DAMN GOOD reason to believe that your River bet will induce a fold. Small value bets, and small pots (compared to your stack size) are often ideal. Because that way, you avoid losing the most chips. And this game is all about minimizing risk.

Just like there's no shame in folding, there's no shame in checking the river.


That is true!! But sometimes ego gets in the way.
 
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First off thanks for the replies one and all!

Ianmacca99-

Yeah, perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been. You are on the money regarding AK, potentially C betting and taking the hand to the river- this I can do. What I never do is make a move with a middling or weak hand, particularly when the board is wet to therefore 'tell a story'.
What I have noticed is some players seem to pre-determine they will make the bluff regardless of the hand dealt- they weigh their table image as being tight/solid and then proceed with 'any two cards'. That process simply never crosses my mind.

Fundiver199-

You make a great point about getting paid off and predictability. Whilst I am generally happy with my game it does lack some 'dimension' and just this simple point underlined a weakness- thanks. I think I need to keep this thought in my head regarding potentially losing profit.

Batarang96-

Generally, how I think, for sure. If a semi bluff (I won't even call anything I do a full bluff) has not worked by the turn, then ditch by the river. All that said I do question myself -and obviously one flaw would be exhibiting a certain pattern i.e. betting on the river and opponents know I have it re Fundiver's comment.


Transcendance-

Essentially me also, its suits my character and therefore playing style. but...I do definitely harbor bluff envy!
 
Constantinoleon

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thanks to the posts of the players read eh greatly appreciated thank you very much:)
 
Constantinoleon

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thanks to the posts of the players read eh greatly appreciated thank you very much
 
TheDude6622

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Here's the thing with poker. You can literally change who you are as a player the next day. You can just go with in a set amount in a cash game and say, I'm going to try bluffing. Raise pre with nothing and C-bet the flop to try to steal. Try to triple barrel just to see if it'll work. It's cool to try to be a different player and try a style out. That way you can morph it into your style.
 
eddy78

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I stop bluff a long time, it's just not worth, too much stress and most of the time people call with 3° pair or just A high. bluff catcher it's for me more worth the try a bluff itself.
 
Zvezda kz

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Hey.
I do not see the need to use pure bluff in games at my limit. If I use bluffs, then with good chances to win, where I have enough outs to win. I think it’s too early to play a bluff, I have enough cards on which you can get good profit without a clean bluff, and I don’t worry about that. I think that everything will come with experience.
I wish you good luck and everyone who reads my post.
 
okeedokalee

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At lower stakes most people won't fold.Therefore bluffing is fruitless.They will call with low pairs and hands as weak as Ace/ broadway.
Some of us think we have made a good bluff when in fact we are winning with the worst best hand
 
MrPokerVerse

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Not bluffing a lot and having the best hand in showdowns can give you a bluff now and then. Especially in forum games with history on players. Have to sell it and sometimes with three bullets and another in the chamber!
 
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prizzy711

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I stop bluff a long time, it's just not worth, too much stress and most of the time people call with 3° pair or just A high. bluff catcher it's for me more worth the try a bluff itself.


I think folks hero call more at lower stakes. Does anyone else notice this?
 
Batarang96

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I think folks hero call more at lower stakes. Does anyone else notice this?


Absolutely. In most cases, it's because less money is at risk. Or because they're properly rolled, unlike many people who play bigger stakes.
 
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Again thanks to all for the further follow ups!

TheDude6622-

Yup, good advice as usual! I think there should be spots (with little true damage), to experiment. I need to find a way to incorporate this into a session with regularity even if I feel disinclined. Its not as though it has to be an extravagant bet size...baby steps maybe!

okeedokalee-

That is a valid point. As I have not been playing for too long I think I have also been bamboozled with the idea of 'what's the point in bluffing as some player will inevitably bet regardless'. It therefore feels like you will be throwing chips at a losing proposition-it'll be a coin flip at best. However, I think The Dude makes a good point about changing your game up and as I said in reply, no one has to bet their house on a bluff!


MrPokerVerse- Thems fighting words. Nice!
 
RasterGFX

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Stone-cold bluffing may be the most overrated tactic in poker. So many people go broke bluffing, because of greed, ego, or refusal to surrender a pot that they've put money into.

If your two bullets don't chase your opponent away by the River, then you need a DAMN GOOD reason to believe that your River bet will induce a fold. Small value bets, and small pots (compared to your stack size) are often ideal. Because that way, you avoid losing the most chips. And this game is all about minimizing risk.

Just like there's no shame in folding, there's no shame in checking the river.

I personally hate to bluff. I also do NOT auto-Muck, and I SHOW my hands whether I win or lose just to let them know the types of ranges I'm playing (which I use to my advantage when pulling off a bluff). Also, I integrate Chat usage (this will also help when you give hand analysis to them), throwing them off the scent that you aren't a "fish" yet maybe a "donkey" (which is what they are really afraid of). After all of this work put in "pre-bluff" my bluff's will become more effective (I also will fold on the River even if they make a small bet and I know I'm beat and NOT show my cards). It's hard to bluff online I've found but is very very possible to pull of big bluffs. :)
 
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prizzy711

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Absolutely. In most cases, it's because less money is at risk. Or because they're properly rolled, unlike many people who play bigger stakes.

I think those games are much harder to get past the landmines at the beginning.
 
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RasterGFX

Just curious with your reply to Batarang96 as you note you always show your hand. I never show mine.

Do you literally show all hands regardless? Is that because you only play a hands with potential value so it is self-evident there was a point to the hand in the first place? I mean there must be times when you chase a hand or misplay a hand- do you still open those up for inspection?

I can see this can give impressions correctly and incorrectly i.e. you could intentionally play a hand poorly to give the impression you are a worse player than you are. Just curious because I prefer to fold every hand, period.
 
KristaK

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I admit I have no ‘pure bluff’ in my game.
I would like to hear from other players how bluff oriented they are and if this deficiency of mine is the weakness it is often portrayed to be?
Some points. Many times I’ve heard players say nothing excites them more than pulling off a pure bluff, but the concept does not excite me at all, even if I enjoy watching them play out. Recording and rewatching top flite MTTs, I’m aware some pros exhibit a great capacity for bluffing, while others do not.
After a few years of playing I believe progress comes when you accept your own playing style and play to your strengths. I can semi-bluff with some ease and also find no problem playing heads up with little more than I what I presume is the ‘high card’- again a form of semi bluffing if you will.
This noted, what I lack is any mode where, upon seeing a wet board, I feel inclined to tell a story, to represent the nuts. It simply never occurs to me!What makes this situation more amusing is I frequently see through someone trying to play such a bluff.
So while I envy those who can employ the pure bluff, are there other players like me who never feel compelled to attempt one themselves?
hi hi
i no sure what exactly means "pure bluff"
you help me understand that term please?
 
AttitudeXL

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I play mostly knock-out's 9 players Sit&Go or tournaments,in micro stackes. I bluff very rarely. Because in micro knock-out games there is always the one player ,who is willing to pay anything just for a change to get knock-out. In micro stakes i don't think bluffing is profitable, ko or normal tournament.
 
Newzooozooo

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Hi.
I rarely bluff. If I am bluffing, it is only against the players I know. Otherwise, it may end badly.
 
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KristaK

With pleasure!

Lets say I play hand which has some value, say a pair of sixes, but the flop shows a straight or flush and no trips for me. I might make a small raise to gauge other players response, to semi-bluff if you will but, what I do not have the ability to do is represent the flush or the straight.

What I mean is I cannot play the board and tell a story, make a pure bluff (or maybe calling it a 100% Bluff might have made it easier to understand)

I can say I am happy with my game - it is fundamentally correct- but as was pointed out above it is predictable if I am betting, I have a made hand, which longer term is not as profitable for me if I was less predictable. That said, making a leap out of my comfort zone is not easy!
 
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