5/10 limit and 1/2 no limit

[gord962]

Read AG and Sticks reasoning - I don't feel like repeating basically the same thing they are saying.

 

[Jack Daniels]

I knew you wouldnt like it so thats no big suprise.

Funny thing is that I'm not surprised that you aren't surprised. We've had some in depth discussion previously on this, so all I'd probably be doing is restating things again.

 

[stormswa]

^^this is pretty much dead on.

Storm, please consider that it is self delusional to think that this your problem is a "bankroll management" issue. It's not.

Stick is right, if you can't divorce yourself from the money and start thinking in terms of 'poker units' (big blinds, buy-ins, etc.) instead of dollars and cents, then that is something you need to work on.

The fact of the matter is, if you can't beat $50NL, then playing $200NL is not the solution.

And you can't beat $50NL. Sorry, it doesn't matter if the reason you can't beat it is lack of skill or if the reason is lack of discipline and tilt issues. The fact remains, you can't beat $50NL.

Let me also just add that a lot of people play at a lower level on line than they do live (estelle comes to mind), partially because the skill level is a lot higher at similar stakes than it is live.

So let me suggest an alternate course of action:
'Demote' your self to $10NL and play there until you resolve your problem with thinking about money instead of 'units', and, more importantly, until you are immune from tilt. And take that $4k and put it in your new child's college fund.

ignoring the last sentence the rest of this post is very good alien. And I might just drop down a little, not to $10nl but lower. I seriously doubt my skill is a issue but you might have a point about bankroll/tilt issues. What I might do is put the 4k on but still play lower levels, not sure yet I will decide when I get back from A.C.....

Maybe its just that I got so used to playing 1/2nl live that I felt horrible sitting so small online, . I really dont know why I have had such a hard time online latley. Thanks.

 

[gord962]

As for the gambling issue, two days ago you were done with online poker, now depositing $4k is the answer. Dumping more money into a "hobby" you gave up 2 days ago screams compuslive and something you can't quit. That's just my opinion. Obviously your looking for opinions otherwise you wouldn't keep posting these threads every other day.

 

[stormswa]

Read AG and Sticks reasoning - I don't feel like repeating basically the same thing they are saying.

from Problem gambling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Problem gambling is an urge to gamble despite harmful negative consequences or a desire to stop. The term is preferred to compulsive gambling among many professionals, as few people described by the term experience true compulsions in the clinical sense of the word. Problem gambling often is defined by whether harm is experienced by the gambler or others, rather than by the gambler's behavior. Severe problem gambling may be diagnosed as clinical pathological gambling if the gambler meets certain criteria.


ok so lets look at this for a second, 1st sentence. I go weeks without playing a single hand of poker with zero problems at all. Me playing has never harmed anyone in my family at all. This is why I think your post is pretty pointless, just because I have deposited and lost money online a couple times does not mean you can group me in a group that has zero control and blows there money and well being on gambling.

 

[stormswa]

As for the gambling issue, two days ago you were done with online poker, now depositing $4k is the answer. Dumping more money into a "hobby" you gave up 2 days ago screams compuslive and something you can't quit. That's just my opinion. Obviously your looking for opinions otherwise you wouldn't keep posting these threads every other day.

I know but thought I would give it another try online, I never said I was quiting poker all together. I could if I wanted to and I go months without playing as is now with all my family stuff going on its hard to get up to A.C. every week. I have never been big on online poker, I would just deposit some to play every now and then, this is the 1st time I would make a sizable deposit online besides the once I put 1k on.

I dont mind your opinion but allow me to respond to yours.

 

[Stick66]

ignoring the last sentence the rest of this post is very good alien. And I might just drop down a little, not to $10nl but lower. I seriously doubt my skill is a issue but you might have a point about bankroll/tilt issues. What I might do is put the 4k on but still play lower levels, not sure yet I will decide when I get back from A.C.....

Maybe its just that I got so used to playing 1/2nl live that I felt horrible sitting so small online, . I really dont know why I have had such a hard time online lately. Thanks.

By Golly, I think our boy has seen the light! Work out those bugs at the lower limits where mistakes cost much less, tilt-related or otherwise.

 

[stormswa]

By Golly, I think our boy has seen the light! Work out those bugs at the lower limits where mistakes cost much less, tilt-related or otherwise.

jerk!

the post was posted to get opinions Stick, if I was just going to do it there would be no reason to post it I would just do it. Over last 2 months I have gotten some horrible holes in my game and its annoying as hell trying to plug them. You got to realize I went from totally crushing the game, making numerous final tables day after day, taking down the 180s over and over to not making a single cash in 2 months, and totally getting blown off cash tables.

this does a lot to someone like me that conciders they have a pretty good grasp on this game and the results for those 2 months did not support that at all.

 

[aliengenius]

ignoring the last sentence the rest of this post is very good alien.

Thank you, but I am sorry you feel that way about the last sentence. While I have no idea of your personal wealth, I doubt that $4K is "nothing" to you, and while no one thinks you are are spending the mortgage money, there are financial obligations that are not 'immediate' like your current bills.

And I might just drop down a little, not to $10nl but lower. I seriously doubt my skill is a issue but you might have a point about bankroll/tilt issues.

I really hope you will consider moving down instead of up. It's the right thing to do. Consider even the lowest of levels. Until you can divorce yourself from thinking in terms of monetary value, and can start thinking in terms of 'poker units' you are at real risk. If you find you "need" to play higher to feel "comfortable" then it's not out of line for someone to suggest a possible gambling problem.

What I might do is put the 4k on but still play lower levels, not sure yet I will decide when I get back from A.C.....

Maybe its just that I got so used to playing 1/2nl live that I felt horrible sitting so small online, . I really dont know why I have had such a hard time online latley. Thanks.

Again, lots of people play lower on line than live, and for good reasons. I think putting four thousand dollars on line is just asking to be tempted to play higher. If you are serious about considering making the right decision here, don't deposit the $4K.

 

[stormswa]

Again, lots of people play lower on line than live, and for good reasons. I think putting four thousand dollars on line is just asking to be tempted to play higher. If you are serious about considering making the right decision here, don't deposit the $4K.

seriously even if I have 4k online if I cant control myself to stay at levels I think I should be at I should not be playing at all, live or online. So the amount I put on is not important, the important part is saying Im going to do something and doing it. agreed?

if im that tempted to move up then yes I should just quit.

the 4k is of course not nothing but it is money that was going to be used for poker anyway during wsop.

 

[aliengenius]

seriously even if I have 4k online if I cant control myself to stay at levels I think I should be at I should not be playing at all, live or online. So the amount I put on is not important, the important part is saying Im going to do something and doing it. agreed?

if im that tempted to move up then yes I should just quit.

the 4k is of course not nothing but it is money that was going to be used for poker anyway during wsop.

Why put yourself in that position? You don't need $4k to play the limits we are talking about. Surely there is no need to beat yourself up and 'quit' again if you slip once and take a shot at a higher game.

An analogy: if you were on a diet and trying to lose weight, would you put a bag of cookies in your cupboard and say, "If I can't not eat them then I deserve to be fat" ? Of course not-- you wouldn't have cookies around in the first place if you were serious about your goal.

 

[Stick66]

By Golly, I think our boy has seen the light! Work out those bugs at the lower limits where mistakes cost much less, tilt-related or otherwise.

jerk!

the post was posted to get opinions Stick

Dude, I think you've totally misunderstood my last post. "Seen the light" means you understand what we are trying to say. "You get it! Good Job! Go work it out at $10NL or lower, like you said." At least, I thought you did.

If you've gone so far off the deep end that you can't even understand the written word, then I'll have to bid farewell to you and your "issues". Good luck, sir.

 

[stormswa]

Dude, I think you've totally misunderstood my last post. "Seen the light" means you understand what we are trying to say. "You get it! Good Job! Go work it out at $10NL or lower, like you said." At least, I thought you did.

If you've gone so far off the deep end that you can't even understand the written word, then I'll have to bid farewell to you and your "issues". Good luck, sir.

was sarcasm calm down.

sorry if you took the "jerk" comment literal, it was not meant that way.

 

[stormswa]

Why put yourself in that position? You don't need $4k to play the limits we are talking about. Surely there is no need to beat yourself up and 'quit' again if you slip once and take a shot at a higher game.

An analogy: if you were on a diet and trying to lose weight, would you put a bag of cookies in your cupboard and say, "If I can't not eat them then I deserve to be fat" ? Of course not-- you wouldn't have cookies around in the first place if you were serious about your goal.

another valid point, thanks alien.

 

[smd173]

storms,
Having played in a WSOP event, I can tell you that it's a very fun experience. Nothing beats being in the massive Amazon Room at the Rio surrounded by pros and others INSIDE THE ROPES and going up against these guys. For me, I'd rather take $4K and play in a few WSOP events than trying to grind out $5/$10 limit and $1/$2 NL online.

When I played my event, I saved up the $1000 to buy in directly. I didn't grind it out online and I didn't play $3/$6 Stud8 to "prove" to myself that I belonged. I went out to Vegas and played my game and I made it through 40% of the field. I played against pros and did fine. And I got a whole hell of alot more enjoyment out of that than I ever would have playing against nobodies on the computer.

I don't go to AC as often as you do, but I've played enough down there. Typically 2/4 limit and 1/2 NL, SNGs, and $100 Tourneys. I do ok in limit, I'm very mixed in 1/2, SNGs I do ok, and I go deep but do not cash in the MTTs. Online, I play micro limits and I play them almost daily. Highest I've played is .50/$1 limit and .10/.25 NL.

I have only put two deposits online. I went bust on FT in a month, and I'm still playing my original deposit on Stars, but I'm presently down, because I have an issue with tilt and blew half my roll a few weeks back. Since then I've been playing in the gutters. .01/.02 NL, .01/.02 PLO8, .04/.08 Stud8.

Skill wise do I belong at those levels? Hell no. But until I learn to control my tilt issues I have to play at these levels. If for nothing else than punishing myself and teaching myself that this is the result of ridiculous emotion that I should be able to control.

I hope you'll find my experiences helpful in making your determination of what to do. Best of luck.

 

[NineLions]

Hmmm, I'm late to the discussion, but,

would you put some kind of structure on your playing?


Something simple, like "I'm going to start at 50NL. If I lose 3 buy-ins, I will drop down to 25NL. When my bankroll has recovered those 3 buy-ins, I will go back to 50NL. Once my bankroll is earned 3 buy-ins for 100NL, I will allow myself to try 100NL"

 

[stormswa]

Hmmm, I'm late to the discussion, but,

would you put some kind of structure on your playing?


Something simple, like "I'm going to start at 50NL. If I lose 3 buy-ins, I will drop down to 25NL. When my bankroll has recovered those 3 buy-ins, I will go back to 50NL. Once my bankroll is earned 3 buy-ins for 100NL, I will allow myself to try 100NL"

none, zero, zilch.

I can make extra money pretty easy so I would just say I think I want to play and I would get the money together and play what I wanted to. It got old real quick and I felt I was a lot better player then this so I decided to stop bleeding money. I have zero experience in bankroll managment so its all kinda new to me. Its funny/sad because I have all the knowledge and skills to be a really really good player but my total lack of BM makes me such a horrible player right now.

Like JD said he and I have talked tons about this but I'm still trying to learn good BM skills. I posted this thread to get opinions and then make my decision on what to do, obviously im not doing this because the negative comments are very good and make a good argument why this is not a good idea. Just bear with me while I try to obtain workable bankroll managment skills. Im going from a good player with zero BM skills to a good player with good BM skills.

 

[aliengenius]

I have zero experience in bankroll managment so its all kinda new to me. Its funny/sad because I have all the knowledge and skills to be a really really good player but my total lack of BM makes me such a horrible player right now.

Like JD said he and I have talked tons about this but I'm still trying to learn good BM skills....

Just bear with me while I try to obtain workable bankroll managment skills. Im going from a good player with zero BM skills to a good player with good BM skills.

Because of this post I just feel like I have to say again that it is NOT bankroll management that is your problem. Please reread if you missed those points I tried to make.

 

[gord962]

Because of this post I just feel like I have to say again that it is NOT bankroll management that is your problem. Please reread if you missed those points I tried to make.

obv there is no hope

 

[stormswa]

Because of this post I just feel like I have to say again that it is NOT bankroll management that is your problem. Please reread if you missed those points I tried to make.

I know your points alien I was just answering the question that was asked, the problem was my total disregaurd for the value of the money I deposited.

but I also have zero bankroll managment skills, I know exactly where my flaws were/are and I plan on fixing them.

 

[stormswa]

obv there is no hope

lol,

if you cant add anything to the thread stay out of it seriously, all I have seen is you have a gambling problem and agreeing with posters actully contributing.

 

[gord962]

I know your points alien I was just answering the question that was asked, the problem was my total disregaurd for the value of the money I deposited.

but I also have zero bankroll managment skills, I know exactly where my flaws were/are and I plan on fixing them.

lol,

if you cant add anything to the thread stay out of it seriously, all I have seen is you have a gambling problem and agreeing with posters actully contributing.

It's a public forum last time I checked, but thanks for your input.

If you knew all your flaws and can just fix them, good for you, but considering you just keep reloading I really doubt it is as easy as you think it will be.

 

[Mojomax747]

What is really wrong with you storm?
You seem to be like a bull in a china shop with a blindfold on.
No matter what you are posting about there is always an edgy compulsion lingering around you.
Is that what we have here, are you overly compulsive?

These limits you intend to play with your 4k BR, have you done this successfully online before?
If you have then why are you not still there now making some nice money, if you havent, what makes you think you can do well there now?

You have said in almost all of your posts in this thread that you know you have the skill to beat these levels.
Storm, no you dont, you just dont have the skill to beat these ring games.

You said you owned the 180 player events, so go back and own them again because any skills that you possess belong in those obviously.
Your ring game obviously isnt up to it.

MTT's and S&G's are where your strengths are from what i can tell, and ring games are where you are coming unstuck.

Feeling the need to have 4-8 tables running at the same time because you get bored and need more action or whatever is another aspect of your play that you need to address.

You, like all of us, are a very proud person and the way things have gone for you recently at the tables has left a very bitter taste in your mouth.
We would all be feeling down and desperate given the same circumstances and thats a fact.

What you have in mind with the 4k seems to me like you are in danger of falling into the trap of chasing your loses, or more to the point and because you said it is all affordable loses, chasing your pride.
Not only that, but your own admission of poor BR management, need for action, and that you are convinced your skill levels are up to the task will also play a huge part in your likely downfall.

Now i want to make something clear and i hope you can see this.
I ( and i am sure the others ) am in no way trying to bash you in any way or taking any pleasure out of posting this sort of stuff.
The reason(s) for it is because i/we are trying to give you the best advice possible that i/we can.
We have taken the time to post here and that in itself shows that we are only doing so because we are concerned.

You have given plenty of us good advice in the past, and we are trying to give some back to you.
I dont mind if you want to call me a jerk or whatever for posting this ( im sure i can take it ) but i would mind if you didnt take it all in and re-group your earlier thoughts and maybe slowly read through all the posts the members have posted in this thread trying to help out.

You have time on your side to decide whatever it is you are going to do what with the few months before depositing you mentioned.
I hope you use that time wisely and things start to come together.

 

[Egon Towst]

Storm, it`s your money and your life. I don`t have a problem with you doing whatever you want to do. That`s cool, and I don`t want to argue with you or fall out.

All I would say is this. Go back up to the top of this thread and review it. There is a solid group of some of the most heavyweight players at CC who plainly think your plan is ill-advised.

Are we all wrong ?

 

[TurnipHead]

I'm gonna respond by using the 3rd person narrative to be more objective but this is the way I see it:

1. A good and knowledgeable poker player (who's been on a good run) suddenly has a terrible run of luck and experiences a severe downswing.

2. By his own admission, his BR Management has never been a serious consideration but after this latest debacle he has given it some serious thought.

3. He thinks of a plan of action and decides to take 2 months out - in which time he plans to read up and study hard on the subject.

4. After the 2 months have elapsed his plan is to lay down 4K and play exclusively the 5/10 Limit tables and the 1/2 NL tables.


Now, I may not be Poker Genius Number 1, but I personally cannot see anything wrong in this. His proposed BR is in line with the limits and he is taking the requisite time out to get his thoughts together.

The biggest two arguments against the idea seem to be:

(1) You shouldn't go up in limits to recuperate loses.

The counter-argument to this is that by taking a significant "time out" or "cooling off" period, he should be refreshed enough to do battle with a clear head. Many people against Storm's idea here seem to assume that Storm's decision is based on anger management issues and that he's gonna dive straight back in, hot-headed, to try to win it back.

(2) You do not have the skill to compete at those levels.

Now I'm not really sure about this one but it seems that Storm's track record suggests he can mix it with these boys. I, personally, play micro-limits because I know I can beat these games and I prefer to play safe at the present time. I also treat poker as a leisure activity rather than a serious way to make money. But in the grand scheme of things these levels are hardly High Stakes Poker! They are mid-levels with the usual mix of good and bad players and Storm has already pointed out that:

"I'm good enough for 5/10 limit and 2/4 NL but I'm only going to put 4k on so I will not be bankrolled for 2/4 NL, honestly the players at 5/10 limit are really not the greatest and players at 1/2NL are pretty horrible."

Let's put the facts on the line here. A guy is going to play poker at slightly higher levels, with a fresh bankroll after a significant time out period to reflect.

No problem. Go for it say I.