NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

Thank you for posting.

I would like to help you with your format of this question as it was slightly confusing to me.

Blinds are 15/30 in a tournament or cash game? Online? Live?

Hero is in the HJ and limps for 30? KK

SB raises to 120

BB calls 120

Hero 3 bets to 480 total or 480 more thus 510 of hero's stack in the pot?

SB 4 bets to 2520

BB calls 2520? or less? Are you getting 3-1 on your call?

Pot is 5500? 1520 for you to call. 3.5 -1 pot odds.

My answer:

So the question is what range of hands would SB make this play with.

We know for sure all players will do this with AA KK: Some with AK.

Would this villain play QQ JJ AQ this way? What about 1010 99 88 or 98 suited?

Does this villain expect to get called or expecting to get folds?

Have you been taking notes on this villain?
Is villain TAG NIT LAG-Loose wild?

How have you been playing? Are you loose wild? What hands do you think this villain puts you on when you limp 3 bet? Does this villain put you on hands?

Is this an isolation attempt by SB to knock out BB and get it heads up with You who SB perceives as playing too wide a range. IE you limp 3 bet 99 88?

Hope this helps

Odds are, he does not have AA. I don't know the percentages, but most of the time you are ahead in that situation. Not a lot of people would bet like that with AKs/o, AQs/o etc but they might. It's more likely that they have QQ or a pair of some sort probably putting you on something like AK, AQ etc. This does not mean that AA are not possible, but your overall likelihood of being ahead in that spot is high, which means the more you play it in situations like that the more money you'll make in the long run. Maybe instead of looking at it situationally try looking at it as to how you'll make money in that situation in the long haul. If he does have aces, however, great fold

Originally Posted by berryryan2488

Odds are, he does not have AA. I don't know the percentages, but most of the time you are ahead in that situation. Not a lot of people would bet like that with AKs/o, AQs/o etc but they might. It's more likely that they have QQ or a pair of some sort probably putting you on something like AK, AQ etc. This does not mean that AA are not possible, but your overall likelihood of being ahead in that spot is high, which means the more you play it in situations like that the more money you'll make in the long run. Maybe instead of looking at it situationally try looking at it as to how you'll make money in that situation in the long haul. If he does have aces, however, great fold

Thanks for posting.

The skill of the villain is how we make specific reads. No good villain is thinking a limp 3 bet is anything less than AA KK by any average player. Therefore a skilled player is never shoving expecting a fold. Thus AA KK is the most likely of holdings for the SB if SB is skilled.

As we see from hero, hero was playing KK exactly that way. We can then assume a skilled SB would know this. Therefore a skilled SB folds AK QQ JJ 1010 99 or 20% of the time turns them into bluff catchers or set miners. You do not bluff catch or set mine by shoving vs 2 players.

That is of course one SB villain type. Skilled. If we knew what type of villain this was from past actions we could know what action would be best.

Thanks for responding

all in

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

Hi There
Remember that KK is a premium hand.
I would call
Would fold only if theres an Ax in the flop, turn or river
Rgds

I assume this is a tournament. If it's a freebie you know that you are probably good and your kk will hold up a majority of the time with what people that early in a freeroll tournament are playing. Regular tournament....maybe the same but you may be up against AA in the SB....personally, that early in the tournament I'm not sure I'm disciplined enough to lay it down. Has either villain showed any hands yet?

My short answer is no, I would not fold KK.

I'm not really the biggest fan of multiway pre-flop all-ins. I have folded 10s and even JJ in a spot like this, only to see the other players turn over small pairs like 7s or 8s. And even though it sucks when you see it, it's also okay to not want risk your stack on 10s or Js. KK, on the other hand, is a totally different story. AA is the only hand that's ahead of you. And if they got it, then they just got it. Otherwise, someone is going to have to get really lucky. Not to mention the fact that you had the opportunity to flat the SB's 4x raise. You could have seen the flop relatively cheap and still left yourself the chance to get away from your hand if you didn't like what fell on the flop. But when you made it 16x, you seemed to be showing that you were committed to the hand. So I don't see why you would start second guessing yourself all of a sudden. It seems to me like when they start going all-in and calling, you kind of got what you were looking for.

I wouldnt fold them. Because the SB can try to punish you for the limp and then think you are trying to steal the first raise. His range is wide. I could push with any Ax high or lower Pairs. So i would say its a good call.

Never folding KK here.

It would take like a perfect read for me to fold this. I have to be thoroughly convinced that's small blind is so tight that the only hand he could have is AA....

Not saying I'm never folding, but I'm playing for stacks 99% of the time.

I would have had to call but could have had aces so i played in a tournament Saturday the lady to my right had aces literally 5 times but she was an easy ready so i got off of 10's and jacks against her

Only one 1 hand beats you preflop AA, and maybe A+ if the A hits on the board. I would go all in preflop with KK

I would call this without a doubt. Only fear at this point is AA’s. I’d expect likely hands to be AK or maybe QQ’s.

Preflop allins are never guaranteed! I'm going in with this one almost every time haha

I'd probably just call and hope for a set, have had been beat numerous times with KK when just limping in …. just shove al in I guess

I don't think I can ever fold KK I would just like to go all in

That's depend of the flop.
Never play all in preeflop with kk if multi player are in the game. You can, only if you'r in heads-up.if you want to be paid.
One Ace and it's finish.
Lot of badbeat can happening....the same for AA, QQ, .....,.....,..

This is a tournament... so u limp in HJ ..u get raised by SB u reraised...SB shoves ..and you shove ofc no way u gonna fold this hand...good trap.

I hate that hand...win with it 10%

Folding here would be a somewhat scared/sissy move on your part. Bite the bullet and put your prized nuts on the table. The worst that can happen is a cooler.

Would not fold KK here. Put your the entire chip stack up in this scenario.

In normal situation (random villain)..... KK i play always all in.

Sometimes when you have a lot of hands (villain) or notes i allow such an opportunity to fold this hand.

Honestly ha its tuff to say but knowing myself I'd likely just go all in and hope for the best.....lol Hard to say if it's A's they hold or not but even being pinched like that, I'd likely do it. It seemed early in the game so.

Obviously all in is OK no matter what format. Sometime you can play trickier and just call and then go all in if there is not an Ace on the Flop.

Never fold I'll say. Maybe at the bubble in a big big tournament.

I almost never fold in a tournament unless it is a satellite and I'm near to certain to get in the money even if I fold the rest of the time.

In cash games it is totally player dependent. I play with some very tight players that have AA here 99% of the time, so sometimes it is an easy fold.

I guess I would almost never fold here, especially if it is a free tourney.

I don't usually fold a couple of kings.Hoping another king will come.And you can lose to any pair if it is on hand and this card is on the table.

I think he might had aces! Anyway, I would avoid to go all in preflop. Why to put my whole stack in danger? AA, KK, QQ e.t.c. are just couples. There are much stronger hands from a couple or two couples!

I would call anything with KK:0) I don't like to, rather throw half until I see a flop with no As, Then I am all in:0)

Same as most people on here I think the all in from Villan is to frighten anyone with a low pair I would say they are holding an Ace and any card probably suited. I would call all in with KK everyone before the flop the odds of being against AA is huge but does happen. If you fold KK everyone someone goes all in against you you end up losing the value this hand gives you about 61% equity against 2 players playing a 12% starting range

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

Never folding KK here, you got what you wanted preflop. You wanted big action with your KK, now your just second guessing yourself, if SB has AA so be it. It feels as if the small blind has a hand like QQ, maybe AK, I would lean towards QQ trying to isolate with you. The big blind on the other hand could have the AK or JJ possibly 1010. BB has to have a very playable hand with you to act behind him, I would be more afraid of this hand than the SB, which could have any pair 88- QQ, in which you are a crushing favorite. Then there is now the BB to worry about which I believe could have a big ace AK or AQ suited just wanting to see a flop. It can sometimes feel like a bad spot, but you have to put all your chips in and run the board out here. Hope for no aces or someone to spike there set on you, But you got what you want with a preflop monster like KK, an all in moment, it's just to bad you have a hitch hiker in the BB and it's not heads up. What was the result? and what did the opponents end up holding preflop?

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

I'm assuming you (Hero) checked 1st, so then I wouldn't have 3bet the SB raise to 120 after which the BB would have called. I would have seen flop with a smooth call. Then see how the SB and BB play the Flop (and if I've improved...)

Yeah....
Good Luck!

It's a treacherous hand, it would depend on how the villain was playing, but against a random villain I would go all in! In the worst case, would have 18% preflop. GL

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

The only way I would fold that is if the tournament was on the bubble, and even then I'd probably just run my time and call at the last second.. crossing my fingers

I don't think I have ever folded KK preflop. Lots of times after but never before.

i fold KK the same way as AA - in the very beginning of a big tournament and if i am close to the money in a tournament where itm pay out a ticket.

KK even higher degree but exact same argument

With KK, I almost always go all-in, but then lose!

if it were the beginning of the tournament I would release an all-in, if the itm already or near the bubble and with a comfortable stack only pay

1. Is it a cash game, or a tourney? Cash game, with a player I've had a read on, I would shove, if villain is a steady, TAG who isn't insane player.

2. If tourney, how big is your stack, how much behind, after the KK play? If mid tourney, with decent amount behind, that is a KK shove.
3. What is your position? Are you leading, or the last to act? That is important. If leading, shoving KK, many will fold, lessening your win.

Just my thoughts, others have great advice as well.

I already fold with AA, KK surely also fold

Originally Posted by EVA777

With KK, I almost always go all-in, but then lose!

KK - actually really bad strategy going all in preflop in any circumstances! they are in general a money maker if played passive or semi - aggressive but never all-in preflop.

but ok other may disagree

For me, option like fold not avilable here. If really not sure, call and push if no aces on the flop, plus always we have the chance for tripse.

Hello
Holding KK I will surely raise pre flop.

Having raised if someone re-raises then I will surely shove all in.

Most times KK will hold.

Even if someone pushes all in before me I wall surely call.

Originally Posted by Guernica1974

KK - actually really bad strategy going all in preflop in any circumstances! they are in general a money maker if played passive or semi - aggressive but never all-in preflop.

but ok other may disagree

I agree with you! But I can’t reset KK! Very beautiful Kings!

If you're trying to play with implied odds, you call preflop and see what the flop is. This way if you see an AQ or J flop you can put out a feeler bet to see what they do or check to induce action to see what they do.

Unless I had a strong read that I was definitely against an AA, I would move in here.

Originally Posted by NolwennC

NLH 15/30. Dealt to Hero: KK. SB raised to 120. Hero 3bet 480 on HJ(REM. Stack: 2030). SB 4bet 2520. BB calls. Action back to you. WHAT IS YOUR PLAY?

It really depends on my senses at the moment. If I'm feeling lucky, I go AI with reckless abandon. If my gut tells me to be reserved, I'm ready to check it down or fold.

Poker makes more sense to me when I stop looking at the objective cards in a hand history like this and live in the moment on the table. There are simply so many parameters that influence a decision and this only reveals its mathematical component. For example, we need to know how the opponent's play style is, your stack size, how the game has been playing out leading up to this moment, etc.

I can't see any ideal move in this situation as it is presented because you'll only truly know when you make your move (by considering the above parameters and others OR just going with your gut) and reap the rewards or cry yourself to sleep.

Originally Posted by eetenor

Thank you for posting.

I would like to help you with your format of this question as it was slightly confusing to me.

Blinds are 15/30 in a tournament or cash game? Online? Live?

Hero is in the HJ and limps for 30? KK

SB raises to 120

BB calls 120

Hero 3 bets to 480 total or 480 more thus 510 of hero's stack in the pot?

SB 4 bets to 2520

BB calls 2520? or less? Are you getting 3-1 on your call?

Pot is 5500? 1520 for you to call. 3.5 -1 pot odds.

My answer:

So the question is what range of hands would SB make this play with.

We know for sure all players will do this with AA KK: Some with AK.

Would this villain play QQ JJ AQ this way? What about 1010 99 88 or 98 suited?

Does this villain expect to get called or expecting to get folds?

Have you been taking notes on this villain?
Is villain TAG NIT LAG-Loose wild?

How have you been playing? Are you loose wild? What hands do you think this villain puts you on when you limp 3 bet? Does this villain put you on hands?

Is this an isolation attempt by SB to knock out BB and get it heads up with You who SB perceives as playing too wide a range. IE you limp 3 bet 99 88?

Hope this helps

as the other person stated he prob doesn't have AA a depends on the tourney you are in and are you willing to go out i would but i am a gambler and am wiling to fe rthe thrill