Why I Dont Like Short Stack Strategies (Micro Limit)

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light65536

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My basic understanding of the short stack strategy is you shove with only the best hands like AK, AA, KK, QQ, and maybe JJ or 10. You buy-in for the minimum and then you shove or fold. I will tell you what I've seen:

* Everyone folds when a short stack pushes
* Someone calls with a pretty good hand which reduces the short stacks edge to only 2%. This is my understanding of sklansky, rationally someone will only call an all-in bet with a good hand. So, we're not comparing starting hands to random hands and with good hands the edges are very small except AA which dominates everything.

This will have a few effects to your bankroll:

#1 Your average loss is now something like 50 big blinds which is pretty good size. You could play a lot of flops with that
#2 Your edge is reduced when you get called to something in the -2% to +12% range

This is basically my understanding of short stack, and I've never got it to work for me. I know everyone is different. I would like to get short stacking to work for me because then I could multi-tabling.

My experience with multi-tabling in play money games worked great. I just shoved with best hands and got callers but on real money tables when I play tight and shove then it's usually folders I get. But with short stacking I don't think you'll ever see the returns of actually playing. And in most cases where I've tried just to play my cards and not the other players I've lost money. Of course, one thing it will do it generate tons of rake for the casino: just a thought.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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You don't have to buy-in for the minimum. Playing around 40-50 big blinds is what most (good) short stacks work with. You want enough in your stack to play 2 streets, preflop & the flop.

What this does is two things:

1) You can pickup dead money by players raising with hands that are good for a deep stacked pot, but aren't very good in a short stacked situation.

2) You give off no implied odds. Set mining, suited connectors, should almost never be played against you profitably. Stacking off with TPTK is perfectly fine in most cases.

So yeah, you do lose some edge, since the turn & river are really where good players will build a large edge (hard to get sucked out when they are no more cards to come). But sometimes you can make up for it if the game is right, or if postflop play is not your strong suit.
 
pantin007

pantin007

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i hope u dont mean like open shoving becuase i saw one of ur HH and u shoved ur 2$ stack into a 8c pot when u hit a str8, so i dont think it is that buying in short is ur downfall, i think ur play is the downfall, examine ur game sir
 
Dwilius

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My basic understanding of the short stack strategy is you shove with only the best hands like AK, AA, KK, QQ, and maybe JJ or 10. You buy-in for the minimum and then you shove or fold. I will tell you what I've seen:

* Everyone folds when a short stack pushes
* Someone calls with a pretty good hand which reduces the short stacks edge to only 2%. This is my understanding of sklansky, rationally someone will only call an all-in bet with a good hand

*haven't seen that
*so when I push KK and get called by JJ and Ace rags I have 2% edge?

I saw your thread on starting hand % so you should know better than to say "with good hands the edges are very small"

There are no real shortstacks at 2NL as buyin starts at 50blinds not 20 so its not shove/fold there.

The reason I've told you to play shorter is so you don't throw 200bb away at a time as a few HH have shown. Might want to start taking advice from people who have won before you go broke, again.
 
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zachvac

zachvac

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Your edge comes from lack of implied odds. So don't shove your monsters, simply raise the normal 4x or so preflop and then get it in on any flop. Theoretically your flop bets should be called by hands like 78 suited, 55, etc. and if you only have 20 big blinds and 4 go in preflop, they'd have to set 1 in 5 (plus more because there will be set over sets they'll lose their stack on rarely). You're not looking to win the stack at showdown, you're looking to pick up money from preflop raises that don't have implied odds. You'll probably lose most showdowns actually, but the advantage comes from not losing as much from showdowns because you don't have as much. Even against smart players they'll call with their implied odds hands without implied odds against you. Your edge is in the preflop raise, so if your opponents aren't paying attention and calling raises regardless of size, I'd definitely consider going for a 5x standard raise.

Also, if you're playing shortstack blind stealing is still extremely profitable, in fact I'd say even more so because people are a lot less willing to play back at a shortstack without a real hand. So still be stealing blinds (same exact risk-reward if you're stealing without showdown value), and just make a standard raise with your monsters. Then regardless of flop you can get your money in, knowing you'll make a long run profit because most of the time they'll fold and when they do call and are probably good they won't have gotten sufficient implied odds.
 
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