When should I move up from 2NL to 5NL?

6

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I've been playing mostly 2NL zoom, but taking shots at 5NL zoom on occasion. Here are my stats so far:

10sarur.png


The thing is that I have the bankroll to play 5NL (I could easily deposit $150 into my pokerstars account), but I want to know whether I'm ready for that stake or not. So far, I haven't had any luck, but it's only been a small sample size.

Will I improve at a faster rate by playing at a higher stake? Should I just deposit and begin grinding 5NL, or should I work my way up the long way (earning my bankroll through 2NL)?
 
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razzor94

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If you want to improve your game stop playing zoom poker and go play some regular cash games. You should grind your way up trough 2NL. If you are a winning player at 2NL you shouldnt have much trouble playing 5NL. Just keep playing the same TAG game i assume you are playing and try to play as much as you can with fishy type players. On 5NL zoom much more players are multitable nits that you have no info on and thats the biggest difference between 2NL zoom and 5NL zoom.
 
6

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If you want to improve your game stop playing zoom poker and go play some regular cash games. You should grind your way up trough 2NL. If you are a winning player at 2NL you shouldnt have much trouble playing 5NL. Just keep playing the same TAG game i assume you are playing and try to play as much as you can with fishy type players. On 5NL zoom much more players are multitable nits that you have no info on and thats the biggest difference between 2NL zoom and 5NL zoom.

I love zoom tables though. I love not having to wait for my turn but also never having more than 4 decisions to make at a time, I love the freedom of being able to start and end a session anytime without wasting several minutes finding good tables, I love being able to play 1k hands per hour, I love never having empty seats or players sitting out and I love the fact that I can see every table at once, rather than having to stack tables (since my screen is so small). I plan to grind 6-max zoom all the way up to 200NL.

I actually found that the players at 5NL zoom were far more aggressive and less nitty than the players at 2NL zoom, but I've only played 1k hands, so I can't draw any conclusions yet.

The thing is that I've already proven to myself that I'm capable of beating 2NL (5.6bb/100 win rate over 48k hands), so grinding is just a matter of putting in volume and slowly building up a bankroll at a rate of about $1/hour. Is it really worth it? I honestly don't mind depositing if it will speed up the process.
 
duggs

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I've been playing mostly 2NL zoom, but taking shots at 5NL zoom on occasion. Here are my stats so far:

10sarur.png


The thing is that I have the bankroll to play 5NL (I could easily deposit $150 into my PokerStars account), but I want to know whether I'm ready for that stake or not. So far, I haven't had any luck, but it's only been a small sample size.

Will I improve at a faster rate by playing at a higher stake? Should I just deposit and begin grinding 5NL, or should I work my way up the long way (earning my bankroll through 2NL)?

depo and play 5nl, you are already a winner at 2nl
 
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gabl136

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I'm in no way a poker pro, but i would consider the following:

1. Playing against players you have no information isn't going to force you to improve at the same rate as being forced to play the players. However, if you want want to do that, zoom is not an option.

2. If you play regular tables, you can always seat at the table full of fish and whales. You can also learn to exploit ''not so good'' regulars, and 2NL is full of those. you can sit to the left of fish and ''not so good'' regulars, and that way you can always have position on them. There are also Apps you can use to search for specific type of players (I use table scanner turbo).

3. I understand why you like zoom, but playing regular tables has the potential benefit of higher winrates (10BB+ at 2NL - hard but not impossible). You can also use apps for multi-tabling, either the free AHK scrips or apps that are for purchase (tabledroid, table ninja, i'm sure there are others i don't know about - demos are available, I think for 30 days).

Personally, I think ZOOM is a waste of time and brain poker.

This is however just my opinion, and am also a noob playing 2NL like you, at a good winrate though (after ****ing around and learning new moves, closing up to 10BB/100 again, 60k sample.

I'm sure more experienced players will have more to say, we'll see what they think about that.


I think it's insane how much you lost in just over 1K hands at 5NL. Did you have some bad luck, or was it that you're not used to the aggressive play at 5NL? I'm also planing to moving on to 5NL, so any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
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I played a few thousand more hands at both stakes and I'm definitely noticing a difference... I'm continuing to crush 2NL, yet I'm getting absolutely destroyed at 5NL.

207kqaw.png


- 30 stacks up at 2NL after 50k hands
- 11 stacks down at 5NL after 2k hands

Is this just variance? Or are the 5NL players that much better than the 2NL players?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Just overthinking due to new level. If you have good brm just focus on correct decisions. Post hands

Analyze ur game aftrr or on a day off and make the call bad play? Or bad run
 
6

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Just overthinking due to new level. If you have good brm just focus on correct decisions. Post hands

Analyze ur game aftrr or on a day off and make the call bad play? Or bad run

It could be this... I will analyse some of my 5NL hands today and try to pin point exactly what went wrong. My theory is that I'm bluffing too much and calling down too loosely at 5NL (over adjusting to the aggressive players). Although it's hard not to fall into that trap after seeing multiple players pull off crazy double/triple barrel bluffs which I would never see at 2NL.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Somedays i think i play solid and i lost only to analyze and go omg .. finding bad plays but its natural for multi table
 
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matiusaa

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I played a few thousand more hands at both stakes and I'm definitely noticing a difference... I'm continuing to crush 2NL, yet I'm getting absolutely destroyed at 5NL.

207kqaw.png


- 30 stacks up at 2NL after 50k hands
- 11 stacks down at 5NL after 2k hands

Is this just variance? Or are the 5NL players that much better than the 2NL players?

I suggest you work you way through NL2 and the buy a HUD. I am beating NL5 zoom tables, running 4,5bb/100 on 200K sample. You need to be really careful when a nit raises postflop, that oftenly means they have a set. With HM2 its really easy to spot the nits and the fish. I do agree that without a HUD NL5 will be much much tougher than NL2 (at zoom tables). That's from my opinion.
I believe you tptk has run all in against a set several times, at that's because its tough the recognise the nits without a hud.
I suggest to follow a strict bankroll management, I play only if I have 100 buy ins, and I'm really near of hitting 1k and jump to NL10. Good luck and I hope my comments are useful to you
 
duggs

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2k hands is a meaningless sample
 
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Poker247

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I also am trying to figure out when to move to 5NL. If a Hud is a necessity it will be awhile. I have built my BR from 0 to $40 so far (started with freerolls and still play those plus 2nl reg tables), so I don't have the BR yet to play 5NL (figure on moving up when I get to $100). However, some people say 5nl is much more difficult...less fish, more regs. Opinions would be helpful. Do I really need to buy a hud?
 
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Giorgio

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Do I really need to buy a hud?

In my opinion yes. The value you have over other players is really thin and looking to f.i. there "fold to f cbet" rate can help to improve your winrate ratio with a couple of bb/100.

I play about 25k hands the month an have a small skype chat group. If you are interested to join, just send me a pb with your skype id.
 
6

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Well, my 5NL win rate has "improved" to -33bb/100 over 5k hands. I'm still losing money at this stake, but at least I'm losing at a slower rate to before. I think it will take me a good 20k-30k hands before I become break-even.

The competition is definitely a lot tougher at 5NL and I feel that a HUD is a necessity. I'm starting to pay more attention to the villains' VPIP/PFR and Cbet/FvCbet stats. I think that these 4 stats make a huge difference when used correctly over a decent sample size.
 
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Giorgio

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Ah nice. My winrate for this month is now something like -2bb/100. But it is hard and you have to make a lot of hero calls. But the swings are big. I lost an all-in pot yesterday set 5 vs set 10 for $16 but won then some other hands and ended the session -1BI. When you only play like 500 hands in a session, then it is very hard to level out the big swings. In our group there is a player that plays 4k hands a day and he has now a steady winrate of 17bb/100. But hero folding is needed and needs to be learned!
 
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My 5NL win rate is showing good signs of improvement. I'm still in the red overall, but I'm beginning to win more than I lose, so it's only a matter of time until I'm back in the green. I've noticed that the games are definitely softer between 2am and 8am Melbourne time (6pm to midnight GMT), so I try to play during those times, as inconvenient as it is for me.

I don't ever intend on returning to 2NL now. Here are my current win rates:
2eltfmp.png
 
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