When to bet 1/4 or 1/3 pot?

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vax1op369

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When is it correct/appropriate to bet 1/3 1/4 pot? Currently continuation bet is half pot. Will do 1/3 if pot is large on flop( 3bet pot) My question pertains more to the turn. Feel that im losing opponents on turn with 1/2 pot sizes or 3/4 bets. Tips??? Thoughts? Thanks
 
nabmom

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Bet sizing is a complicated subject (as a google search of "bet sizing" will show you). First question shouldn't be "How much to bet?" but rather, "Why am I betting and what do I want to accomplish?"

There is no simple answer (like most poker questions!). Your bet size will vary based on whether you are trying to keep other players in the pot or force them to have the wrong pot odds to call.

It would be easier if you posted some example hands, and we could give more specific answers as to how much betting size should be in the specific situation.

There is also the factor of understanding how your opponents behave. Some players will call just about any bet if they feel they have any chance to hit (these players are often called "stations"). Others are considered "fit or fold" and will fold to your turn bet if they haven't hit a decent hand.

Sorry that there isn't a simple answer, but poker is NOT a simple game! :)
 
Misaki

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This topic is huge but mostly on wide ranges and most of the time on dry boards. And what's most important if you want to cbet 1/3 a particular board you want to bet there your all range or almost all range. And check most of the times turns which don't give you extra equity. But if you hit extra equity then you want to barrel it always like 2/3 turn because by cbetting 1/3 on flop you keep your villain's range just wider so he will fold a lot of turns.
It's not like you can cbet 1/3 without any plan. If you don't have gameplans for your cbetting, barreling range just stay with standard cbets and at least maximize your fold equity on flop. Because by cbetting 1/3 you generally don't expect too many folds (because villains have to widen their calling ranges vs 1/3 cbet) and if you don't barrel many boards properly then 1/3 is just waste of money.

About 1/4 sizing it's a good sizing in most of 4bet pots.
 
CTAPYXA

CTAPYXA

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In order to correctly put 1/2 or 3/4 of the Bank, you should choose a convenient finger and press a certain mouse button.(joke):D
 
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Newknight666

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I feel that the old saying weak is strong and strong is weak doesn't work anymore. Your bet size needs to be based of your opponent, the hand and the pot. That being said look at your patterns see if you can analyze a pattern and figure out which hands you won by betting and or got maximum value. Then look at each hand separately. No two hands or the same so using this make sure you look at all the info given before shippng a 1/2 pot size bet when a 1/4 bet would had given you the same information.
Good luck Best wishes
 
puzzlefish

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Bet on a way that makes your opponent feel that they have the better hand.
 
57noona

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Bet sizing is a complicated subject (as a google search of "bet sizing" will show you). First question shouldn't be "How much to bet?" but rather, "Why am I betting and what do I want to accomplish?"

There is no simple answer (like most poker questions!). Your bet size will vary based on whether you are trying to keep other players in the pot or force them to have the wrong pot odds to call.

It would be easier if you posted some example hands, and we could give more specific answers as to how much betting size should be in the specific situation.

There is also the factor of understanding how your opponents behave. Some players will call just about any bet if they feel they have any chance to hit (these players are often called "stations"). Others are considered "fit or fold" and will fold to your turn bet if they haven't hit a decent hand.

Sorry that there isn't a simple answer, but poker is NOT a simple game! :)

I agree with this post. We do need some example hands to help with the answers to the question of bet size.
 
Poker_Mike

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If my opponent is short stacked then I might bet 1/3 or even 1/4 of the pot to let them put more money in the pot.

If I flop the nuts then I might bet 1/3 of the pot.

Mostly "don't scare them off" situations.

Good luck !
 
Misaki

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Mostly "don't scare them off" situation

you know. In poker you want to earn money. How do you want to earn money if you bet small with your strong hands?

don't care about it. Just bet bigger. People will call you anyway if they hit something ;) For example when someone bet 3 to 10 pot, then 6 to 16 pot and 9 to 28 pot. Or something like that. It always says me: hey I have something, please call me.
so you win in that example: 18

Now imagine you bet 6 to 10, then 15 to 22 and 35 to 52. Now you win 56

18 by betting small, 56 by betting normal.

Do you see how much value do you lose in long run? it's not like people never call bigger bets. They do. And vs recreational players you can use even 90%+ bet on every street and still they will call you.
 
guineasqueak

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1/4 pot bet can be applied to many sticky situations, where your villain is not sure if you are buying the pot or under-representing a monster. You can take advantage of this depending on your HUD tells and personal history with the opponent.
 
Crispoker540

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Usually if I play against a recreational and I have something of value 1/3 Against a regultar 1/4 or 1/2
 
manzanillo53

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Bet sizing is a complicated subject (as a google search of "bet sizing" will show you). First question shouldn't be "How much to bet?" but rather, "Why am I betting and what do I want to accomplish?"

There is no simple answer (like most poker questions!). Your bet size will vary based on whether you are trying to keep other players in the pot or force them to have the wrong pot odds to call.

It would be easier if you posted some example hands, and we could give more specific answers as to how much betting size should be in the specific situation.

There is also the factor of understanding how your opponents behave. Some players will call just about any bet if they feel they have any chance to hit (these players are often called "stations"). Others are considered "fit or fold" and will fold to your turn bet if they haven't hit a decent hand.

Sorry that there isn't a simple answer, but poker is NOT a simple game! :)
That answer was perfect for me. It is complicated and I am only resently weighing all options and conditions before betting. At the casino where I play, it is difficult to assess because most players are all in. No real poker skill, or knowledge of odds.
 
Peppinotom

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More important than the pot size is the stacksize of the opponent. Bet 10%-25% and he might stay, bet more than half his stack and he needs a hand to stay...now choose, what you want him to do :) :hmmmm2:
 
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maxi_j

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You can bet on dry flop if you hit top Full House. I prefer X on those situations.

The you read hand good (in some situations usually on river you know exact hand/hands he has) and those hand are weak.

If have strong hand and want induce bluff from maniac.

Vs good player who knows well how to play vs 50%-75% pot bets but you know beetter how to play 1/3.

Vs short stack (14 BB deep).
 
ventrolloquist

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When is it correct/appropriate to bet 1/3 1/4 pot? Currently continuation bet is half pot. Will do 1/3 if pot is large on flop( 3bet pot) My question pertains more to the turn. Feel that im losing opponents on turn with 1/2 pot sizes or 3/4 bets. Tips??? Thoughts? Thanks


Basically the higher and more coordinated a flop is the bigger you should be betting. If a flop offers a flush or straight draw you should bet over 66% pot. If a flop is an uncoordinated rainbow with mostly low cards (ie: 27Q rainbow) you can opt for a 33% pot bet. If the flop is something totally ridiculous like 227 rainbow or 333 you can bet 25% because it is highly inelastic, and an opponents hand is either made or isn't and there are no draws for him to chase. So you can afford to bet less to induce a fold. The exceptions are calling stations who would call those small bet sizes regardless.

An elastic flop is one where the potentially best hand can still be made (this means draw heavy boards). Elastic flops require bigger bet sizes, you want to deny equity to your opponents draws while getting value if you do get called. An inelastic flop on the other hand is one where a hand has already been made or not made, so it's a flop with few or no draws, here you can afford to risk a smaller cbet size as that can generate a fold from opponents who haven't hit the board and won't be chasing any draws.

The bigger you bet the less often you must bet, which means you should lean towards betting coordinated flops with stronger holdings. Meanwhile you can bet low uncoordinated flops with a high frequency using a smaller bet size (if you had the preflop betting lead).

Edit: Just noticed you're talking about the turn (doh). Turns like bigger bet sizes https://upswingpoker.com/small-vs-big-bets/
you should also consider your flop/turn sizing so that you can shove a big enough amount on the river.
And yes, to echo the good advice that others have already said. Some players are so bad they may fold to a minbet. Others are stations who may call anything. And for others yet you have to feel out what they're comfortable calling if you're value betting, and what they would fold to if you are bluffing.
 
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ventrolloquist

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Basically the higher and more coordinated a flop is the bigger you should be betting. If a flop offers a flush or straight draw you should bet over 66% pot. If a flop is an uncoordinated rainbow with mostly low cards (ie: 27Q rainbow) you can opt for a 33% pot bet. If the flop is something totally ridiculous like 227 rainbow or 333 you can bet 25% because it is highly inelastic, and an opponents hand is either made or isn't and there are no draws for him to chase. So you can afford to bet less to induce a fold. The exceptions are calling stations who would call those small bet sizes regardless.

An elastic flop is one where the potentially best hand can still be made (this means draw heavy boards). Elastic flops require bigger bet sizes, you want to deny equity to your opponents draws while getting value if you do get called. An inelastic flop on the other hand is one where a hand has already been made or not made, so it's a flop with few or no draws, here you can afford to risk a smaller cbet size as that can generate a fold from opponents who haven't hit the board and won't be chasing any draws.

The bigger you bet the less often you must bet, which means you should lean towards betting coordinated flops with stronger holdings. Meanwhile you can bet low uncoordinated flops with a high frequency using a smaller bet size (if you had the preflop betting lead).

Edit: Just noticed you're talking about the turn (doh). Turns like bigger bet sizes https://upswingpoker.com/small-vs-big-bets/
you should also consider your flop/turn sizing so that you can shove a big enough amount on the river.
And yes, to echo the good advice that others have already said. Some players are so bad they may fold to a minbet. Others are stations who may call anything. And for others yet you have to feel out what they're comfortable calling if you're value betting, and what they would fold to if you are bluffing.
And I meant to say elastic and inelastic ranges not flops [emoji1], but the idea is the same, it's how the ranges hit these flops that helps decide the bet size.
 
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Tinyman1104

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Hard Question, Here's a thought

This is probably the most difficult aspect of poker as it can separate a crushing player from a slightly winning player. Before you bet you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish with your bet.


If you want to bet for value and build a pot, you're going to want to bet closer to the pot or even overbet. In order to do that you have to put your opponent on a range that can call such a bet. I personally will size my value bets from .75-1.5 pot depending on how much of my opponent's range can continue. You can also bet to bluff because your hand didn't connect and you can choose similar sizing for that too because you want to have to balance. These types of bluffs are only good if you have a range advantage.

Now, what about small bets? I love using 1/4 and 1/3 pot bets for a variety of reasons. It keeps the pot small when you don't want to build it. Also, most opponents especially online in fast-fold formats don't understand mdf and are folding too much on the flop. A small bet on a dry board is very effective against these players as long as the board misses their range or hits your range which should be fairly often. Small bets also encourage players to stick around with wider holdings. If you are very nutted on a dry board, consider using a small sizing. You're probably not going to get much value out of him anyways and if he is strong you'll fund out before the river. Also, this balances you out. In Multiway pots (as long as you are the pfr or in position and the pfr checks), a small cbet is very effective. It ends up capping players ranges and gives you a green light on whether or not you should bluff later or value bet heavy depending on your holding.

If the pot is $20 and you bet $5 on a J42r board in position against two players and they both call, more times than not they have a middling pair, weak jack, gutter, or random floats. When the offsuit A comes on the turn you can bet this card (usually bigger 3/4 pot) like nobody's business because unless they had 53, A4, A2, they can't continue profitably. Notice that I didn't even say what your hand was because it doesn't really matter.

Half pots sized bets, on the other hand, don't accomplish much in my opinion. You're missing out on value when you're strong and you give opponents a good price to call with marginal holdings when you're bluffing. If someone is using exclusively half-pot bets I can usually label them as a weaker player and start taking advantage of them on boards where I have range advantage or boards where their range misses.

Hopefully, this helps please give constructive criticism if you don't agree with any of my points.
 
Igor Popadyk

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what limits do you play? at low most of the players will not attach importance to the size of your bet
 
akmost

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If you want to bet for value and build a pot, you're going to want to bet closer to the pot or even overbet. In order to do that you have to put your opponent on a range that can call such a bet. I personally will size my value bets from .75-1.5 pot depending on how much of my opponent's range can continue. You can also bet to bluff because your hand didn't connect and you can choose similar sizing for that too because you want to have to balance. These types of bluffs are only good if you have a range advantage.

You mean an overbet on the turn and most likely a jam on the river right?
Because 1.5*pot on the flop is something I haven't seen till now.Flop cbets are rarely near pot because most of the times our hand strength can be changed dramatically on turn/river.

Sometimes I overbet turn with the nut blockers and jam river for bluffs to apply maximum pressure and I balance it with the total nuts against the same opponent(I play regular 6 max). I am recreational and relatively new to cash games , I play micros but I like to be aware of those concepts.

Can you or anyone else give some examples of overbetting turns (jam rivers) for value/bluffs if I am not asking too much?

Thanks
 
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Tinyman1104

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You mean an overbet on the turn and most likely a jam on the river right?
Because 1.5*pot on the flop is something I haven't seen till now.Flop cbets are rarely near pot because most of the times our hand strength can be changed dramatically on turn/river.

Thanks


Yeah, I agree overbets on the flop are pretty rare. I'll do it if I'm not trying to play multiple streets. For example I might have 77 on 234r flop. I have a good hand and am most likely ahead but I want to protect my equity. Another example is when spr is low and I am trying to size my bet on the flop so that we are all in by the turn.
 
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