What is more important than POSITION?

S

spindoct

Enthusiast
Control. It is simply amazing to me that of all the articles I read by all of the self-proclaimed pros, None seem to mention what I have come to believe is the single most important part of playing winning poker. As long as you and you alone have control of the game, you will win.
Some years past, while at Boulder Station, located in Las Vegas on Boulder Highway, I bumped into a very good friend of mine. Goes by Paul "KING OF THE CAP" Z. Anyways I am in the poker room getting a cup of coffee and here he is playing 4/8 omaha high. So I ask him what he is doing out here and not at the Horseshoe which is his favorite spot? His answer was to me most interesting.
He tells me he just borrows $200.00, and what chance do I think it has if he plays at the shoe? The answer was pretty obvious. Very little. Like the shoe has some of the best games in town. (well it did then.) That was the problem. I tell you the chips go in so fast, if you pick up a big wrap and don't get there, well, there goes the dough. But he tells me this other game, look at it he tells me, everyone is well over 60. They all have piles of chips in front of them, and not one raises before the flop. Only Paul. None of them checked/raised. only Paul. Absolute total control. At the Shoe there was CHAOS. At the Station there was control.
Anyways guess who gets all the cash. He does. Why, he controled the game. Anyways I am not saying seniors can't play, But at 10:00 pm something has to give. If you want to play all hours of the night, don't get old.
Until I can think of something else to write,
Later,
spindoct
P.S. jetsetpoker I think has a pretty cool site. If you haven't checked it out yet give it a shot and let me know what you think. Yes they have freerolls. But there is a trick to registering for them. You have to keep your mouse arrow on the register and wait for the register light to come on. Then click. You better be fast. They have some very quick ones there. I am outta here.
 
Q

qsilver1

Guest
i think there are alot of things. position can help you nibble or induce all ins. chip stack is a true helper becuase it allows you to control the table. also true if you can think clearer by out lasting the other players into the late hours that will also help your control. so yes if you have control then chances are you will win. but remember there are no jedi mind tricks allowed on the dealer so control can leave you pretty quick. good luck.
 
G

gradin123

Guest
Position can steal you a few pots but it's not the be all end all. Sometimes a strong bet from a bad postion can steal you a pot as well. People don't expect bluffs from bad positions.

Ultimately your cards are still the most important factor. But being agressive(control) is a necessity to being a good player.
 
Z

zeta056

Guest
sometimes control works but not all the time... there are and will still be those players that play with nothin and will often catch cards they need to push you out... otherwise good strat... i agree that control is a big part in winnin games...
 
N

nextdoggie

Guest
Your Cards,

obviously. Not just your hole cards, but the flop, the turn and river cards. I hear people whining about the river, but hold'em is a 7 card game.
 
K

kardmania

Rock Star
Position

Position is the key component according to the best poker player I know. You may miss a few pots on marginal hands however, you will defend your chips.
 
S

smith300

Guest
The most important thing to me is to pay attention. Some players always bet no matter what they have. Make notes on players and watch the interaction of the table. Do not try to bluff people who rarely play hands because you will get burned. Be agressive-- As Annie Duke said one time If you do not get caught with you hand in the cookie jar from time to time, you are not playing good poker.
 
MicheleW

MicheleW

Rock Star
Seems to me, your friend Z can't compete with real aggressive poker players - and would rather "control" sweet, old gentlemen poker players. He might do well to play aggressive games and learn from them. I find it funny that people always go toward the "easy" instead of learning to be a real expert at something through failure. Nothing builds your expertise like running with the big dogs.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
MicheleW said:
Seems to me, your friend Z can't compete with real aggressive poker players - and would rather "control" sweet, old gentlemen poker players. He might do well to play aggressive games and learn from them. I find it funny that people always go toward the "easy" instead of learning to be a real expert at something through failure. Nothing builds your expertise like running with the big dogs.

So playing a table against tight passive vs loose aggresive isn't becoming an expert. Last I recalled playing against all types of players makes one an expert. Just because someone doesn't at that particular moment want to play with loose aggressive cannons.(maniacs, mega-maniacs) doesn't make them a novice. Taking control of a table because you read the other players are so tight. I have dealt with a table of both those species of players. 2 nights ago playing a tourneyment and the 1st table I was at had very loose aggresive players.(k,4 hand jack,2 hand 6,Q) I had to play supertight which I did but lost to a 4,6 suited hand against my QQ's. Everything was raised pre-flop. Bet and re-raised on the flop, the turn, the river. Hard to put someone on a hand when 5 players will play anything. I learnt 1 thing and that I was on the wrong table with this many maniacs on the table.

I have also had the same experience of running into a table that never raised and when they bet it was because they had something. They never pre-flop raised. Reading a table does also make 1 an expert, so taking advantage of a table when you know you can is part of the game. If someone does realize this then how can they become an expert when opportunity represents itself as this and all they do is play thier game.
 
Grumbledook

Grumbledook

Guest
Control is important but this is table selection rather than control.

Control is stopping yourself going on tilt, knowing when to quit etc
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
yeah better title would have been "game selection" 2 superb points were made here about game selection though. Regarding a game with primarily bad players and one with good players. Which one do you pick? The answer totally depends on what you wish to accomplish from the game! Do you play poker to primarily win money or do you play for the competition? If the goal is to make money you MUST play the "weaker" ot loose games. Now do you want to improve your play and are willing to take a bigger chance on losing some money then play the best game you can find! First ask yourself what your goal is and then decide amongst the available games.
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
10
I've heard several things mentioned that all should gel together to make your game.

Position: Of course. Very important. If you want to make a move on a pot, better to be in late position than early position so that you can make a read on the players before you...do you really want to bluff at it if someone ahead of you makes a big bet?

Chip Stack: Used properly, I think that a large chipstack can be a great weapon to bully others and take down more pots.

Reads: You need to pay attention to your opponents if you are going to find cracks in their game. You need to know who are calling stations, tight, aggressive, loose, etc. and adjust your game accordingly.

Cards: Well yes, to a point. But you can't just play your cards, you've got to play the players. Unless you're playing limit, betting, not just the cards are a big part of your game. This is an aspect of my game that I am currently working on to improve my overall game.
 
K

KidHavok

Guest
that type of game, almost does not exist..... That is one instance, very few games are that passive, i wish him the best of luck. In normal conditions, I would have to give the position over everthing, but if by any chance someone has the ability to control ALL ASPECTS OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!! Then they for sure would win, unless they are a total fool.....
 
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