What I have learned rampaging.

titans4ever

titans4ever

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First, I look at rampaging as a style of poker. You intentionally go to a table short stacked, hit and run to the next level, etc. I thought it would be interesting to try and it was within my bankroll to play it as much as I wanted. I actually have done well at it and thought I would share some of what I have learned about ring games and playing this style.

Bankroll management.
-I look at these as playing a $5 SnG. If that game is not within your bankroll then don't play this style at that level. I personally don't do the tapping off to keep me close to the min buy-in. It makes it decieving how much you have invested. All or none for me.
-Once I have doubled the min buy-in I move up and bank the rest. I finish with $11.45, I only take $10 to the next level and profit the $1.45. In doing that, I can sometimes make back the $5 I started with. You are not always losing the $5 you start with every time. I have busted and still made money.
-Knowing when to bank and start over. I set a max at $40. If I make it to that level, I quit and start over. I know you can keep rolling but turning $5 into $40 is a nice afternoon of playing.
-Keep stats. I created a spread sheet that shows how I did each session. I track how many times I clear that level and do a running %. Profits per attempt. Profits for each level. etc. This is the only way to truely see if you are making money at it.

Playing the small stack.
-You have to be the aggressor when playing. The big stacks will put you all-in alot to try and push you off pots. They give you respect when you throw it all-in. I don't just bomb all-in when I have a hand. I raise 3BB if first in. Play normal, don't be a donkey or you won't get action and everyone leaves.
-You really have to watch the pot and how much you bet. You bet to strong and you will not have enough left to give incorrect odds on the next street. It has made me focus alot more on how much to bet on each street.

Learning to play at higher levels.
-Since I have started the contest, I have played at levels that I normally don't play. I think it is a good thing to get your feet wet at the next level and this one way to start doing it. I have enjoyed see what the skill level and play is at the next levels above what I want to play now. This will give me more confidence when I do decide to move up to that next level.

Skills
-This style does NOT help you really get better at playing. You don't have enough money in front of you to make too many bluffs since you will not have enough left to push around after the turn. That is why I say you have to be aggressive early. You don't have the money to make moves on the turn too often if you raise preflop and bet on the flop.
-You get some work on preflop play and flop play but that is about it.
-You do get a little rush of the double up so that make it alittle more fun.
-You really minimize your profits on the payoff hands. There have been several times I wished I had more in front of me when holding the nuts.

Overall I don't mind it but I don't think I will play it much longer. It is a style that is uncoventional in nature and takes advantage of some aspects of poker but also is a hinderance in others. I did it, learned some thing. I do think you could use it build up a bankroll but requires a very different style of discipline to pull it off. There are babystep to the process and if you don't have that self control you are just throwing money away.
 
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NineLions

NineLions

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Thanks Titans. I was hoping someone who did a fair amount of the rampaging would post some thoughts on it. Maybe BBB will add some ideas.


You know that you can't play the later streets, so you have to make your decisions preflop or on the flop is what I found. On rare check-through hands you might make something marginal later, but you've got no chips to work work with. The advantage is that you give no implied odds to someone drawing either so they _should_ fold when they're on a draw.
 
bubbasbestbabe

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What I have found since Ramping is location, location, location. This is key to playing this way. I have found that the shorthanded tables are the pimples that are ready to be popped.

On the screenshot this is what you want to look for. Don't just look at the open tables. Look at the full tables. If you have to wait, so be it. It's usually not long because the action at these tables is fast and furious. The one I show has 2 people waiting. I notice that a lot of the tables with high avg. pots have people waiting. But this isn't all of the picture. You want a lot of action. You want to make sure that the table has lots of high stacks and you also want one whale. That whale is your key to success.

That's the one you target. His stack is 3X bigger than everybody else. He's usually a lot looser than the others and will bully the table. He is the one you want. He will fill your pockets.

Your minimum buyin will get no respect at the table. Like titans says use it to your advantage. When you have that one hand it will be easy to get callers on your all in.
The thing to remember though is once your have clipped the table they will be ready the next time. Take your money and run. Find another table and again go in for the minimum. Think of it as a guerrilla attack. You'll find that your bankroll will increase nicely and you will limit your losses this way.

Rampaging going up the levels is hard. I haven't seen anyone here make it to the higher levels. But rampaging through the lower levels as a way to build a bankroll is very feasible.
 

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mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

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Excellent advice by the above players. A couple of things I've learned I'll share. I agree that when you have big hands like AA KK QQ, a standard raise followed by all-in on the flop no matter what hits is prob best. However, if I have AK AQ hand that I intend to play I push all-in no matter what the action is in front of me. If limpers you push, if a raise you push, if first to act you push. Reason is that these type of hands play best if you get to see all 5 cards. Remember that any raise is a significant portion of your stack so if you are calling a raise or making a riase you have to get it all in on the turn anyway. You will be surprised at what hands will call you, I've been called by A-3, 10-9os and other weak hands. The last thing you can do is make or call a preflop raise and then fold on the flop. You don't have enough chips for that.

So you need to understand that this is an odd way to play and can't be played normally. It's almost allways limp, push or fold.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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Rampaging going up the levels is hard. I haven't seen anyone here make it to the higher levels. But rampaging through the lower levels as a way to build a bankroll is very feasible.

I set a stop point at $40. I took $5 and made it $40. $35 profit is a nice amount for me. It is better than winning a 9 person sit and go and alot of times is about the same amount of time. To get my $5 to $40 I had to double up 4 times 5-10-20-40. That is alot of shortstacked poker where you are pushing small edges alot of times. Since you have to throw all the money in before the turn, you are always playing with a higher risk factor of getting busted. If you just kept going you will eventually hit the hand where you lose and now you have lost your $5 instead of having $x in the bank. I think this is where the discipline comes in. Don't get too greedy. A bad combination is playing at alot higher stakes than you normally play with more money than you normally play. I think the combo will start to alter the hands played and thought processes you go through and you will start to make mistakes. Not good.

Next time I think I will push it up one more level now just because I have made some nice cash doing it so far. I know I may be cutting my profits greatly by stopping but that way I knew I would make money. I don't think I have seen any try the next level starting with $40.

Money for the month:
rampaging +$110 (because I know when to stop) :D
max buy-in cash games: -$65.35 (stacked 3x in the last week at $50 NL):(
SnGs and tournies: -$24 (haven't cash in either lately):mad:
 
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Emperor IX

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Money for the month:
rampaging +$110 (because I know when to stop) :D
max buy-in cash games: -$65.35 (stacked 3x in the last week at $50 NL):(
SnGs and tournies: -$24 (haven't cash in either lately):mad:

Funny. the one activity that is not good bankroll management kept your numbers out of the red for the month :deal:
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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Funny. the one activity that is not good bankroll management kept your numbers out of the red for the month :deal:
Ironic, isn't it.:rolleyes: But I set alittle different set of rules before I played. I set a low max/cap to what level I wanted and I am not sure if I am playing exactly the way the original post stated but it was vague rules to go by. After 10 tries I came up with my own style of when and how to bet to max profit and min loses.

Minus getting stacked 3x in a week, I was ahead for the month in ring games. I am sure I will be close to even by the end of the month.
 
beardyian

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Funny. the one activity that is not good bankroll management kept your numbers out of the red for the month :deal:

This has been an interesting read and informative - extra cookies for you :)

Of course the bankroll is under threat as stated earlier but although i understand its an experiment it also shows that when it works, it works.

But remember when it doesnt - you are damaged.
Where as people like Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson also recommend not to use more than 5% of your BR when playing cash etc.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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This has been an interesting read and informative - extra cookies for you :)

Of course the bankroll is under threat as stated earlier but although i understand its an experiment it also shows that when it works, it works.

But remember when it doesnt - you are damaged.
Where as people like Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson also recommend not to use more than 5% of your BR when playing cash etc.

This is the bankroll management part of rampaging that causes all the problems. What do you consider 5%?

I am well bankrolled to put $5 into play. You double up your at the first table and are about to move up tables do you count this as the original $5 or do you see it now as buying in for $10. I still see it as $5. Those who now see it as $10 will have the problems becuase it can become a large portion of their bankroll.

To make things even more confusing. Say I start with $5.00 and get to $11.25. Move up and start with $10 and finish with $21. Now take move to the next level and wow finish with $41. I keep going and risk the $40 and darn I bust. Wait, i banked $1.25 + $1 + $1 = $3.25. I really only lost $1.75 this time. I am always going to bank that extra. That way you don't usually lose your whole $5 each time you try. Plus if you bank the whole amount I don't think it will be the crushing loses you might expect.
 
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beardyian

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This is the bankroll management part of rampaging that causes all the problems. What do you consider 5%?

I am well bankrolled to put $5 into play. You double up your at the first table and are about to move up tables do you count this as the original $5 or do you see it now as buying in for $10. I still see it as $5. Those who now see it as $10 will have the problems becuase it can become a large portion of their bankroll.

That is why I started with a cap and am stick to it. Make your $5 to $20 or $40 and STOP. You WILL eventually go bust. Setting a cap will stop you before you get out of control an risk too much.

I was meaning in general everyday terms - try not to go over 5% of your BR.

In rampaging - as you stated - you cannot stick to that and so more danger to get more rewards, which at the same time could cause more damage.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Excellent advice by the above players. A couple of things I've learned I'll share. I agree that when you have big hands like AA KK QQ, a standard raise followed by all-in on the flop no matter what hits is prob best. However, if I have AK AQ hand that I intend to play I push all-in no matter what the action is in front of me. If limpers you push, if a raise you push, if first to act you push. Reason is that these type of hands play best if you get to see all 5 cards.

Good point, Snake. Although, I think the blog suggests pushing JJ+ preflop, but definitely AK/AQ for the reasons you mention.


Correction: The blog says if there is a raise in front, you push. But, if there's a raise in front at a $25NL table, it'd be $1 so a repop would be to $3 anyways.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Anybody make any adjustments if you get part way there? Like you hit one hand less the blinds so you're at $9 and change. Same strategy, or adjust slightly towards a normal game? You've now got room to go a street or two, and $9 push preflop is more intimitating than $5.


The other option is to leave with $5, bank the $4 and start over, I guess. Although that may not be according the contest rules.
 
titans4ever

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Anybody make any adjustments if you get part way there? Like you hit one hand less the blinds so you're at $9 and change. Same strategy, or adjust slightly towards a normal game? You've now got room to go a street or two, and $9 push preflop is more intimitating than $5.


The other option is to leave with $5, bank the $4 and start over, I guess. Although that may not be according the contest rules.

When I get to $8 or $9 I now have enough to play to the turn or river. You can see that extra card before you are all-in but I don't really change my game too much. I still won't bomb unless it is the only bet that will work in that situation preflop.
 
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