What do you think of min buy in short stackers?

quick

quick

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The past few weeks I switched over to FR on Bovada and have noticed there tends to be a good number of min-buy in short stackers. I've never understood this strategy. Yeah i get that they think they win "easier" by shoving wider ranges and doubling up , but it just seems like it's "gambooling." Which obviously we want at our tables.

But I can't help but get frustrated sometimes watching these short stackers online come in, shove every other hand, get lucky on the river a few times and then leave. Or they shove more selectively but end up ruining odds because they'll shove their remaining 20BB stack into a 4BB pot over and over. Then when they do get a big stack over time like 300BB (if they don't hit n run) then they STILL spaz shove the entire stack into a pot like 5-15x smaller than their stack. I watched one player do this over and over even as his stack got over like 300BB. I asked him why he shoved like $45 into a $5 pot and he goes "well you folded didn't you and I'm obviously winning." He continued to shove into small pots. Long term we want this and long term I imagine these players are losing players so I wonder why they bother.

I guess this is just a little rant. I watched a bunch of SSers last night jam pots over and over and over. Some busted but a few built massive stacks. I don't feel like SSer buy in is a strategy, I feel like it kind of takes away from the skill of poker and makes the game less enjoyable for the majority of players who buy in full and want to play poker not bingo.

Sometimes I love them because when there's big pots they have to fold or shove and it's like free money. But majority of time they're like a thorn in the side of the average stacks; you can't give them bad odds usually, you can't bluff them, and you can't defend good hands against big draws because they often have massive odds to call.

What do you guys think?
 
Harold

Harold

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When playing short stackers, you have to remember that you are also a short stack.

So, it is imperative that you learn how to play short stack strategy - which is usually just a case of get it in before they do/let them put it in when you're confident your range is ahead of their shoving range.

No two short-stackers are the same, identify which your opponent is and act accordingly.
 
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I hate playing against short stackers in cash games. It reduces most decisions to shove-or-fold, and there is rarely any room with the stack to pot ratio after the flop for any real poker.

There used to be a ton of these players from Spain on Full Tilt pre black Friday. Also, be ready for them to scurry off and leave the table if they double up.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Yep... Hate playing against short-stackers. Takes a lot of my edge out of postflop, and you also get into a lot of coin flips with them for 60bb with stuff like JJ vs AQs pre and stuff like that.
 
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GeorgeF1234

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Yea I find it hard to play against them, but don't see them all too much. I plan on creating a list of hands that I would call their all-in's with and see what happens. From then I can adjust up or down accordingly based on what works. Depends entirely on my stack size of course
 
Dorugremon

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The past few weeks I switched over to FR on Bovada and have noticed there tends to be a good number of min-buy in short stackers. I've never understood this strategy. Yeah i get that they think they win "easier" by shoving wider ranges and doubling up , but it just seems like it's "gambooling." Which obviously we want at our tables.

These types of players have no self confidence: they're fish. If they are doing what you describe, then they have it all backwards. If you're playing a shortie, you need to nit it up to be sure you're good when you do jam it all in. If they're shoving wide ranges, figure out what that range looks like and let them give you their money.

But I can't help but get frustrated sometimes watching these short stackers online come in, shove every other hand, get lucky on the river a few times and then leave.
No self confidence. Don't worry about it, Mr. Hit 'n' Run will back to lose it all tomorrow.

Or they shove more selectively but end up ruining odds because they'll shove their remaining 20BB stack into a 4BB pot over and over. Then when they do get a big stack over time like 300BB (if they don't hit n run) then they STILL spaz shove the entire stack into a pot like 5-15x smaller than their stack. I watched one player do this over and over even as his stack got over like 300BB. I asked him why he shoved like $45 into a $5 pot and he goes "well you folded didn't you and I'm obviously winning." He continued to shove into small pots. Long term we want this and long term I imagine these players are losing players so I wonder why they bother.
Earlier this week, I watched one luck box his way to a 1000BB stack. Yeah, it happens, and sometimes someone hits the lottery too. Lady Luck soon wearies of carrying these yutzes. For every luck box like that, think of how many lost one short buy, one after another, to where the loss would have been lower if they made a full buy and lost that stack. Yes, some find that more painful than losing the equivalent of three whole buys, one min-buy at a time.

Sometimes I love them because when there's big pots they have to fold or shove and it's like free money. But majority of time they're like a thorn in the side of the average stacks; you can't give them bad odds usually, you can't bluff them, and you can't defend good hands against big draws because they often have massive odds to call.

What do you guys think?
Use a fixed limit strategy. You often can't give an opponent at fixed limit bad odds either. You can give them the least best odds, though. Against a shortie, a TPTK is a go hand, so go ahead and jam it in. You can either break him, make him reload, or make way for a more well heeled fish. If you lose, you haven't crippled your stack.

It also works the other way: he's short, and he can't give you bad odds. That makes hands like (A,x-s) worth playing against a shortie since you'll get odds to draw. Just like fixed limit. Usually, short stacking fish have a wealth of other bad habits as we;l (FoF-fie play, MUBS, nut scared play, predictable, exploitable play). Identify them, use them against them.
 
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