Sucker Play

Che

Che

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I need to vent about a stupid play, and how it makes you like a sucker. I see this all the time at the tables.

Here it is:
You call a pre-flop raise, out of position, and then you lead out on the flop.
Are you mental? - I don't care what you have in your hand, never ever do this. In fact, I know what you have. Either a bluff or you have A9s, hit a nine high flop, and lead out thinking: what a fukx, I can can beat AK ..., duh....

But here is what happens: You get raised big and then you fold, right? You figure he really does have Aces, or hit a set, and it was worth a shot.
Calling a raise out of position is very bad. But leading out on the flop out of position into the pre-flop raiser is heinous.
Oh, and the flip of this: If you are the pre-flop raiser and someone just calls and than bets on the flop, always raise them. They are either repping top-pair, trying to bully you, or have a flush draw. There is no way on earth someone calls a raise pre-flop and then leads out with a flopped set of better.

Raise that troll and send him back under the loser bridge.
 
C

chronical

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I dont know, I kinda had succes with some of this plays=)
Yesterday:
`I'm UTG AJs 3.5bb raise am called from MP, SB fold,BB call
`flop nusts (93Q) =), bet 1/2 pot, 'am raise by MP 1/2pot , BB calls
`turn blank, bet 3/4 pot am called by MP and BB
`river blank, I shove am called by MP,BB folds
MP was pulling two pairs Q9 with no flush dro

I get your point about usually if you flop strong/nuts you dont bet too big, as yourops might fold,so you slow roll or try to hide the "monster", but you have to adjust to ops + limits you play on. Most micros play "fit/fold" and if they got something decent (top pair, a "monster" two pair usuually they call 3 barrels).I get that MP caught a cooler in a sort, but if PRF raiser & bets 3 streets on a scary board like floped 3suited cards it might be smart to fold, and on the flip side if you know (as I did) that your op is pulling anything that is a top pair I'm betting, as there is no point in loosing money for 1 street &/+ give your op free outs.

I do understand that raising from UTG leaves you in wierd possition as even if you flop top pair you do not know is your A good or bad... maybe he slow rolled AKs, but from what poker traker tells me, most hands that are AJo+ and face a raise ussualy respond with a shove(or a huge,for the median raise/3bet of the table 14bb raise), or try to get cute post flop (chechk>check>shove; chech>check-4ebt 20bb). Again so we are on the same page, I'm playing micros, and I'm happy to agree this strategies will not work on low+ levels.

But to your point - yes, abuse dem suckas
 
R

Running Nose II

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I don't know what was in the pre-flop raise, but it could have been something good. Leading out is no bad thing as you could have improved your hand, even have hit, so a big raise won't scare you.
 
S

Sidetracked

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I've seen players who will only donk into the pf raiser with sets or better, so you're not right all the time there...
 
KingOthRing

KingOthRing

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Good Sportmanship

I need to vent about a stupid play, and how it makes you like a sucker. I see this all the time at the tables.

Here it is:
You call a pre-flop raise, out of position, and then you lead out on the flop.
Are you mental? - I don't care what you have in your hand, never ever do this. In fact, I know what you have. Either a bluff or you have A9s, hit a nine high flop, and lead out thinking: what a fukx, I can can beat AK ..., duh....

But here is what happens: You get raised big and then you fold, right? You figure he really does have Aces, or hit a set, and it was worth a shot.
Calling a raise out of position is very bad. But leading out on the flop out of position into the pre-flop raiser is heinous.
Oh, and the flip of this: If you are the pre-flop raiser and someone just calls and than bets on the flop, always raise them. They are either repping top-pair, trying to bully you, or have a flush draw. There is no way on earth someone calls a raise pre-flop and then leads out with a flopped set of better.

Raise that troll and send him back under the loser bridge.

Rather than get angry, recognize what worked against your own superior poker prowess once, may work to your benefit should you use it against an opponent in the future. Called a nice raise, got lucky and flopped top pair? Sure, why not? Fire into to the pot hard to protect your top pair or at least take control of the betting by taking the initiative...just as this tactic did to you it will do to others, they will fold or simply call rather than raise as you are so adamantly posting...so look at it as a gift, rather than the bad beat you are convinced that it was.
 
D

Dan Lucas

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I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle. When you are out of position, and you flop top pair, treat your bet like a question. You are asking your opponent to make a decision. If you bet and he calls, he has some kind of hand and you can see the next card. If he raises you, you have to determine if he has it and act appropriately. The pros talk about donk betting out of position, but let me ask you this question. What do you learn if you check and he checks back? I have learned the hard way that you must always consider all the reactions to what you do, and then be prepared to act. Don't just bet without a plan for what happens next. The pros like to play in flow, but they also want to maximize their gain. I read an article once that said betting your monsters is profitable in the long run, and that trying to set traps is a good way to go broke. I hope that you can profit in the long run, no matter how you decide to proceed.
 
Che

Che

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Rather than get angry, recognize what worked against your own superior poker prowess once, may work to your benefit should you use it against an opponent in the future. Called a nice raise, got lucky and flopped top pair? Sure, why not? Fire into to the pot hard to protect your top pair or at least take control of the betting by taking the initiative...just as this tactic did to you it will do to others, they will fold or simply call rather than raise as you are so adamantly posting...so look at it as a gift, rather than the bad beat you are convinced that it was.

Well, just try it once and see for yourself how fast the opponent will fold. There's no way in the world that a caller from EP will bet into you the preflop raiser if he flopped big. He will definitely check his monster. You can easily steal the pot from him with "air"
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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If you have flopped sth you cannot expect always the initial pf raiser to bet cause this bet might not be enough and the counter CR might scary him more than if you start the betting as you prefer , if he has sth he wants to see how will develop will call , so you take the control of the action with this ''donkey bet'' . But I usually leave the prf raiser to see what he ''ll do . You have to adjust your game I guess to the players , everything .
 
M

marcumx

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if i'm first to act, i hardly ever bet the flop no matter what. one, i want to see what every one else does and 2 if i have the nuts, i want to get paid for it.
 
H

Haanski

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This is very player dependent and you need to mix it up
 
Che

Che

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if i'm first to act, i hardly ever bet the flop no matter what. one, i want to see what every one else does and 2 if i have the nuts, i want to get paid for it.

It looks like you are playing reverse poker and that is a losing strategy.
1. You refuse to cb for fear of playing without a hand on a missed flop
2. You refuse to start building the pot up so you check or bet very little
3. You check the nuts and let opponent to bet so you either check-raise him and blow him away or bet big the turn and blow him to hell again.
4. I suspect you bluff big and think you have discovered the golden spring of woosoopa ..., lol...lol... Ha...ha...haaaaa :rolleyes:

This strategy is a loser.
 
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