On the subject of "sitting out" during tournament play.

[pigpen02]

pigpen, I don't want to beat a dead horse.

Let me put it this way, by posing a question. Suppose there were 9 hands being dealt at a table (2 cards each face down), but only 5 people sitting there. (The other four players were physically in another room.) Also, suppose you played different starting hands for 5 players, then you did for 9. Which would you play, the 5 players starting hands, or the 9 player starting hands?

Answer that question, and we can put this to rest.

The horses you can beat. Just lay off the pig.

The 5 player starting hands. Now it can rest. If you are going to say that the cards on the table should not be counted in odds, don't.

 

[OzExorcist]

As long as it's in the rules, people are going to do it, but I can't help wondering if it's good or bad for poker.

Surely they're the definition of dead money, and that can only be a good thing? More money in the prize pool, more chips in play, and you don't have to put in any extra effort to get them.

Personally, the only thing that bugs me about it (and maybe it's only a problem in Full Tilt tournaments?) is that it's not always obvious when a player that's sitting out comes back into the game. There's no indicator that a player is sitting out, other than your observation that their hand is getting folded instantly every time. So you can be harmlessly raising a player in the blinds that's been sitting out up until now, then suddenly they're raising you back and you've only got 57o

Of course, if a player's sitting out then a minraise will be enough to get their cards folded so you're only losing one bet. But still, some kind of 'sitting out' tag would be nice.

Live it wouldn't be a problem because it's obvious - either there's someone sitting in the chair, or there's not. But online it's not so clear.

 

[mendozaline]

The 5 player starting hands. Now it can rest. If you are going to say that the cards on the table should not be counted in odds, don't.

Right. 5 player starting hands. And right, those cards are still hidden just like you and Jack said. So, we have to figure 47 cards (or 50, 47, 46, 45).

Now.....errr.....if one guy is sitting at his seat, looking at the cards before they're folded........are there 5 or 6 players?

But, maybe we should still let it rest.

 

[mendozaline]

This was a lively subject but I feel your trying to out think it.

I've been known to do that, sorry.

 

[mendozaline]

Personally, the only thing that bugs me about it (and maybe it's only a problem in Full Tilt tournaments?) is that it's not always obvious when a player that's sitting out comes back into the game. There's no indicator that a player is sitting out,...........But online it's not so clear.

That's one of my main points. That and the question: are they really sitting out?

 

[mendozaline]

On all three sites I play on, (Full Tilt Poker, Bodog, Ultimatebet) you can jump-in after the cards are delt (if you are quick enough and not UTG).

I think you're right. I just noticed that today. But there's not much of it (if any) going on like at pokerstars.

 

[Flops'm&Bets'm]

Flops, this was a great post. I had a feeling something like this was going on, the first time I saw a table full of sitouts.

By the way, can you elaborate on this last sentence? How can someone "sneak" to your table? Aren't they moved there by the program?

On some sites (ex. PokerStars) they get moved stealth-like and when they are sitting out you cannot directly see what they have for Amount.

If you have the Tournament Lobby up and your table highlighted..you can see who has what. Mouse pointer over the player to get their stack size displayed.

What may happen is you are playing well getting good cards and the flop is hitting you on a 'Rush'.
Then the Big Stack sits down and you are playing along as you have for 30-45 mins.
Suddenly the table dynamic gets shifted before you are aware and can make the necessary adjustments.

 

[zachvac]

I prefer the noble path myself. I see sitting out much in the same light as I would see a marathon runner who came in for the last mile of the race (if that were legal)

Bad analogy, the marathon runner hasn't been making progress. A better analogy is the marathon runner who decides to sit by the starting line and have a picnic the first half hour of the marathon. But it's still a little different because poker isn't a start to finish game, it's a forward and backward game, where the goal is NOT to lose. So it's like a marathon where some people go backwards, others go forward, and these people are sitting still, slowly being pushed backwards.

From my perspective, I would never ever sit out. I'll usually have another game (like freecell or hearts or something) up playing, look for a premium hand, and if I get one play it, if not fold. It's the equivalent of check-folding until I get AA, KK, QQ, AK, once in a while JJ depending on position and action so far. If you are going to sit out, just check-fold everything but aces, and shove with those. Most likely that means you'll take the blinds every time you pick up aces, meaning you still come out better than you would have had you sat out.

 

[19RK64]

hello all, i would like to say i DO-NOT know of one site that cleans a table or tables in real money>meaning you payed for your seat... At AltimateBet, I play their,and they DO-NOT clean the tables in real money tourneys,the player just just might be having internet problems ! no one enjoys giving money away enoughf said on that...freerolls,and freeroll qualifiers to bigger tourneys at ultimatebet,has a TEN MINUTE MUST SHOW RULE !!! But if you sit out at any time, you will be their till you are blinded out..I not really care how many are playing at the table,With me less players allow me to play more lose,and see more flop ect, its great practice even in a freeroll,and the pot you take with nuttin, much more with less players,but it does catch my attention in ten man sng's and final table tourney and i need to be thinking about the possibilty of the players sitting out and placing, while i just come close to my goal,but as long as i aware of it i can try to deal with it.

 

[CrawdadM16]

The issue with sitting out...

...is that, in my oppinion, many of the poker players today do not have the patience needed to grind it out. They want the quick score and the final table. But tourneys of any size or profit, have a period of time where there is nothing you can do but grind it out. Look at the wsop, they show you only the big action on television (that is part of the problem) but think of all of the action that you do not see. This is a six day tourney! yet people have trouble playing an entire two hour tourney. The siiter lacks discipline in my mind, and in that will never be a succesful poker player. My advice, stay away from him. her when he/she returns. They tend to be suckout masters as well.

 

[Insomniac_1006]

Bad analogy.

I disagree, but will muck my reasoning on this matter.

 

[perry]

According to PokerStars customer service all the chips that start in a tournament have to stay there until it is completed. Makes sense, however another player and I spent an hour winding down a sitter who would have come in first. We had to spend time to put him/her in third. Sucks alot. If a player leaves the table, online, that is "sitting-out" and don't come back to play the final table - they should forfeit and not be awarded a place in my opinion. The online companies are smart enough to figure out a way to take care of the exceptions that happen and create bad mojo for players who play throughout the game. Sitters should never be able to place in the payout -- they should be required to play in the final table or loose out.

 

[19RK64]

some one said why dont you see sit outs at ultimatebet YOU DO SEE THEM,but YOU WILL ONLY SEE THEM IN GAME YOU WERE ALLOWED to enter 24 or more hours prior,take the OFC for example over 1000 player's were elimated at 10minutes I was heads up... I can remember the aruba,freeroll qualifiers there>im shure you can also, top50,then top 100 then winner gets seat, I would pick out one that let you sign up the day before heck ten minutes later you would lose one third to half your playing field,and at least one third in next one.but when you got to final tourney no shows were aloud too stay till blinded cause a few bought their way into ,and others worked their way up through smaller buy-in tourneys it not bother me i can work at a slow pace, if heads up or 3 players ,if they are playing to agressive for my hand i have, i know how to fold ,it use to bother me but i was help by a player name TIGERWAR69 and now i do ok i guess heads up or 3to4players at a table playing and i would like to repeat at ULTIMATEBET you will never get kicked out of a buy in tourney !!!! but ten minute rule stands for freerolls

 

[lphillips33]

when people sit out they still post blinds so its just like folding every hand

 

[hffjd2000]

Why sit out?

You will miss hands you would have won.

 

[joe777]

No need ti sit out,you need those premium hand to win.Plus youll lose your blind easily.