To slow play or not to slow play??

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richiecski

Guest
Hi,
I wanted to see how some people here feel about slow playing in NL Holdem in certain situations online. I think slowplaying is either incredibly risky or incredibly smart play considering the situation you are in.Obviously,you can slow play a monster and have an opponent hang themselves by continually bet at you while you simply call them all the way down to the river and show them the bad news. This kind of play can either bring a mountain of chips your way or for the most part I think, usually not too many. If your opponent is a timid player, and you check to him and he has garbage too, i would say 80% of the time he will just check back and then muck his cards when he either doesnt pick anything up on the turn or river or when you bet even just the minimum amount of chips. This causes you to lose your pot equity on a made hand drastically. I think slowplaying in this sense is only effective against 3+ timid/passive players at the least. Some one has got to be a complete fish to not take a stab at the pot if 3 people in front of them fold, no matter how timid they might be, but when facing these kinds of players heads up, bet at them and chances are you will stand to gain the same amount of chips either way.

Now this type of slowplay can be incredibly beneficial when you play against those maniacs/jackals/hyperagressors in either multi-way or heads up situations, if you pay attention to small details when playing back at them. The great thing about this situation against a heads-up hyperaggressor is that you can either be in position or out of position and stand to gain the same amount of chips from them by slowplaying. If you check out of position with a flopped full house, they will protect their aggressive image and play at you by betting a decent sized bet. Now, here is where I think you have tread lightly in order to pull this off the entire way to the river:

Most of the time in online games I have played in, when someone bets big, people with hands that usually arent too great or they are unsure of, usually take more time than usual before they either call or usually fold. And im sure as many people would agree, when these people do call, they usually lose. This is the exact image that works so well in slowplaying.

If you flop a stone cold nuts full house out of position, check to the maniac. If they bet, obiviously you cant wait to call here or raise, but give yourself anywhere from 5-10 extra seconds before calling only. By doing this, any kind of player sees it as having doubt or speculation with your hand, so if the turn comes a blank, they will contune to bet at you. Now if you sprung at this opportunity to call their bet on the flop, most aggressors will slow down on the turn or river if they dont improve their hands and check if you keep jumping at the chance to call them after checking each time. So basically what im getting at is wait as long as possible to call after checking each time, it will make your check to them seem much more believable in my opinion.


Now of course slowplaying can always back fire. Say you have pocket queens and hit a set on the flop. You check and your opponent checks. Turn comes, you bet the minimum just to keep him in the hand and not scare him off. He calls. The river comes and you check, he bets and you cant wait to raise him all-in. He calls that and turns over the flush that you let him draw out on for a small price. So I guess the point is to pay attention to the texture of the board on the flop and turn especially because if you dont it could cost you. Even if you have a strong hand like that set, you got to be wary of what can beat you still and pay attention, but if there is no doubt in your mind that you have the nuts, I really think that the slowplay I talked about with simply waiting 5-10 extra seconds before calling bets will render a huge amount of sucess.


So here are the two opposing viewpoints and positive and negatives with this kind of play. What does anyone else think? I would love to hear because this is a situation that can get pretty tricky for me.


Thanks for reading my rambling.

Richie
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
To be honest about 90% of the time I try to slow play.. I get smoked. So I don't dilly dally with slow playing much at all.. Even if I have a set and the flop comes a rainbow with no straight draw. I don't even want to chance the runner runner donk who will call me on the turn for incorrect odds.. I do love the donk who calls me for a flush draw while I have a boat on the flop.
 
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florianI

Guest
i like to play fast
but i hate slower players
they sitt even on freerols and wait for fold from the game with sitt out
just to stay longer
play or run away from here
on real mney table i understand this tactic
 
withawedge

withawedge

Visionary
Slow play is very very dangerous. Get the money in big time (far less risky) and get them to pay up.

Occassionally the nutter will just keep going and do you but a lot of the time you will price them out.

:withstupi
 
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Daglo

Guest
Depends on what cards are dealt also its good to mix it up alittle with slow play and hard play this confuses your opponent (not always) and fattens your chipstack
 
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penny144

Guest
I agree you have to mix it up, this will definitely confusses your opponent and can build your stack. To slow play always depends on the cards, your position and what's on the table. But this does work and can make you a lot of chips if played correctly...
 
talkpkr2me

talkpkr2me

Visionary
I read a great article by Howard Lederer on the "perils of slow play"..He advises against it..All it does is give your opponent more time to make his hand...this is exactly why you hear all the complaints from people getting their pocket A's cracked...
 
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bellhead1970

Enthusiast
Got burned the other day by a guy slowplaying AA, the only problem was I had AJ, the flop of A, J, 8. He checked I bet the pot he called. Next card J. I thought I had the ntus. Bet the pot he rereaised, and I put him all in. He called and I was out $20. Should have read it better, but don't know how I could have laid it down. He raised the BBX2 and I called.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Well slowplaying top pair or an overpair is very different than slow playing quads or a full house or something. If I have AA and rags flop, more likely than not I'm going to bet it. But I have to think even Howard Lederer would slow play if he flopped a monster like quads or a full house and thought he could induce a bet from his opponent.

Slowplaying a set can be tricky since it's tempting but, at the same time, people of course love to chase their flushes and straights. If I flop a set and the board is rainbow and free of real straight possibilities, I'll usually not bet, and just call if someone else bets. On the turn I'll get more aggressive and if there's a draw then, I'll make sure I give others very bad odds to chase it.
 
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Styrofoam

Visionary
the only time i slow play is when i flop a VERY strong hand. IE Fullhouse, quads, top trips with no real draw potential (only sometimes), and top two pair (rarely) You almost HAVE to slow play quads and a flopped boat. You need someone to catch up. For example you are dealt pocket 4s in the big blind. It is raised 3x from UTG and 1 caller, then to you and you call. The flop is 4 4 3. You have to check this because this flop almost 100% missed them ... even if no one bets you're not losing anything. Giving them a free card HELPS you if one of them hits on the turn. YOu check, they bet, and you call, with the intention of raising substatially on their river bet. They have almost no reason to believe that you have quads.

Slowplaying is dangerous. Not only does it give someone a free card they would have been most likely willing to pay for, it gives them that card at infinate odds. Its NEVER right to fold to a check - period.
 
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LadyLoon

LadyLoon

Enthusiast
Awards
1
I very seldom will slow play AA anymore, as i have been beat too many times doing that. I have more luck with a huge bet and perhaps taking 1 person along rather than 3 or 4 with low pairs who catch trips along the way. Other cards depends on position, cards and what's on the table as to whether i slow play or not...
 
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Inner_Insomnia

Guest
LadyLoon said:
I very seldom will slow play AA anymore, as i have been beat too many times doing that. I have more luck with a huge bet and perhaps taking 1 person along rather than 3 or 4 with low pairs who catch trips along the way. Other cards depends on position, cards and what's on the table as to whether i slow play or not...

I absolutely agree! After 4-5 destructive slowplaying aces i never do it anymore.. Big preflop raises and safe bets after in order to avoid the calling stations.. I prefer taking smaller pots than to lose holding aces or other great hands by the runners runners..
I only slowplay in 2 situations. If i have the nuts with the flop.. That means full house or the highest possible straight.. Otherwise offense offense offense!!!
 
NANUNANU

NANUNANU

Rock Star
lol slow playing isnt too smart!

When I first started playing I loved to slow play.Now since I am much more EXPERIENCED I dont slow play. Someone who slow plays 90% of the time gets bad beats 50% of the time...youll lose in the long run. Say you have aces in early position and you limp in(DUMB) and say about 5 or six people limp in as well your probably beat allready and your aces are smoked. Thats when players wonder how their aces were beat.....ITS BECAUSE YOU SLOW PLAYED IT!!!!!! Slow playin is a heads up move or maybee 3 handed THATS IT!! If your slow playin 10 handed.. lol ...you dont win for sure!!
 
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Styrofoam

Visionary
NANUNANU said:
When I first started playing I loved to slow play.Now since I am much more EXPERIENCED I dont slow play. Someone who slow plays 90% of the time gets bad beats 50% of the time...youll lose in the long run. Say you have aces in early position and you limp in(DUMB) and say about 5 or six people limp in as well your probably beat allready and your aces are smoked. Thats when players wonder how their aces were beat.....ITS BECAUSE YOU SLOW PLAYED IT!!!!!! Slow playin is a heads up move or maybee 3 handed THATS IT!! If your slow playin 10 handed.. lol ...you dont win for sure!!

Don't pull numbers out of the air and use them as fact. Yes, slow playing AA preflop is a bad idea, and letting 6 people in withyour aces is also a bad idea, but you're not beat right off the bat. Someone still has to make 2 pair or better to beat you, and that doesn't happen every flop. In fact, the flop will generally miss a couple a few of them, or they may hit middle or bottom pair and fold to any strength..especially if the flop is K 10 2. Or something similiar. Chances are even with a decent raise you're not going to push out hands like KQ, KJ, QJ, or maybe even K 10 even with a raise, and these are the hands that will almost certainly be the ones that will hurt you in the hand (with a flop like that). Furthermore, you're not raising simply to knock people out of the hand, you're raising to maximize your profits.

But slowplaying certain hands is not only a good play, its the ONLY play. For example if you have 44 in the big blind and you get in for a min raise and the flop gives you quads, the ONLY course of action is to CHECK here. Chances are, the flop COMPLETELY missed your opponents and they HAVE to catch up. If they have AK, you want them to hit one of them so they will stack off. Otherwise they have a pair of 4s with AK kickers, and thats not good enough to stick around with.

Slow playing, like anything else in poker, is 100% situational. While its not a good idea to slow play every hand, its not a good idea to play every good hand you make super fast, either.
 
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kyfranchise

Guest
I like to slow play because this is the easiest way to get a huge stack of chips. Depending on the situation that is out there though. Like if I have AA and flop another A but there is like a K J also on the flop i wont slow play here because i dont want someone with a straight draw to stay in. But i try to slow play when i have really good odds of no one hitting something really big.
 
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Stonedsurfer

Guest
I played a lot of 5 card draw and slow playing was always an option when trying to get others into your trap. Slow playing and trapping always made me feel like I was one up on some players because they are careful afterwards knowing you will sit on a great hand in order to bleed them a little more. As the others have said, I also got burned many many time waiting for the trap to fall and ended up letting them into a better hand by my lack of aggression. Short handed tables in the right situation slow palying AA may work,but I've seen the worst delt hand win 45% of the time by not betting out the chasers. Later...
 
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