MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
left.... you always want position on the big stack.
simple reasons, by having position you can play optimally to either extract value, or pick them off with well timed bluffs.
You get to see their actions and lead the betting most often. In general the ball will be in your court more often than not and you will have more control over them then they will over you.
P.S. No need to buy in short, buy in max stack and stack em. If you can't afford to buy in max stack, lower your limits until you have a proper bankroll
orchidra
Allan with two Owls
Loyaler
I assume you are talking online poker with only one table option and you have not got the time to watch the table for a while. To answer your question, I'd prefer the seat to the left of the deep stack, because you would always have position.
However, what is more important to me is how aggressive the players are. I would prefer to be seated to the left of aggressive players, for the same reason as above. Position. So to put it another way, aggressive players on your right, passive players on your left.
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GameTooHard
Rock Star
Silver Level
It depends on the other players honestly. I'd be willing to be +2 to the right of the deepstack if it puts me left of a fish. Generally though if the deepstack is the only information you have then to the left of them.
drubas
Rock Star
Silver Level
TheNutz4You
Legend
Loyaler
My only concern is sitting on the direct left of the biggest fish/whale/spot at the table, weather they have the biggest stack or the shortest. Now if you get lucky and find a table where the whale has the biggest stack...... TAKE THE SEAT TO HIS LEFT IMMEDIATELY .
If a whale sits down at your table after you, leave table and come back and take the seat to his left if you have to. the EV of sitting to the left of a whale is so large, it counters even having to sit to the right of the biggest stack at the table.
If a whale sits down at your table after you, leave table and come back and take the seat to his left if you have to. the EV of sitting to the left of a whale is so large, it counters even having to sit to the right of the biggest stack at the table.
C
CallmeFloppy
Legend
Bronze Level
I always want to sit to the left of the big stack. As Mike Caro stated, chips flow to the left. You will typically lose most of the chips to the people who have position on you and gain most from those whom you have position on.
D
dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
Okay I have back to playing live games since my first post and I learned it’s better to Left of loose players and Right of tight player. Take advantage of position on the wide range of loose players and not worried about tight players to my left When tight players start aggressive betting then it’s good to get out of the way
As far as the big stack. This can change after I sit down I don’t know who just got lucky. If it s fish or pro who happen to have big stack. Or someone that buy in and has not played
As far as the big stack. This can change after I sit down I don’t know who just got lucky. If it s fish or pro who happen to have big stack. Or someone that buy in and has not played
RasterGFX
Rock Star
Silver Level
I prefer sitting to the right of deep stacks (or crazy-raisers). It sorta depends how many are at the table and where it's (halved). But yes, I would rather be directly to the right of a deep stack (or aggro-raiser).
Good Luck!
RasterGFX
Rock Star
Silver Level
Good Advice. If (IF) the deep stack or aggro-raiser are actual Poker players and watch you fold, fold, fold, fold, play (WIN DECISIVELY), fold, fold (WIN DECISIVELY) yada yada yada, then you will definitely have their "attention" when playing SB and BB (and if you fold or Raise them) they will most definitely think twice about re-raises (flop view in my experience increases greatly).
Good Luck!
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
In cash games the main consideration is to try to have tight players on your left and loose players on your right. The reason is, this will allow you to play most pots in position. Position matter more, the deeper stacks get though. So having a short stacked loose player on your left is less bad than a deep stacked loose player.
I sense, that OP might feel, that the big stack is probably the best player. But that is really not the correct way to think about it. In the short term poker is mostly about luck, and you dont even know, how many times he reloaded, before he won a big pot. So in a cash game there is no reason to be afraid of a particular player, just because he is sitting with a big stack.
Its different in tournaments, where the chip leader can threaten your stack without risking to much himself. Having him on your left in a tournament, and especially if he know how to take advantage of it, is a nightmare. But there is nothing, you can do other than just nit up, let him bluff you, and hope that one of you are moved to another table.
I sense, that OP might feel, that the big stack is probably the best player. But that is really not the correct way to think about it. In the short term poker is mostly about luck, and you dont even know, how many times he reloaded, before he won a big pot. So in a cash game there is no reason to be afraid of a particular player, just because he is sitting with a big stack.
Its different in tournaments, where the chip leader can threaten your stack without risking to much himself. Having him on your left in a tournament, and especially if he know how to take advantage of it, is a nightmare. But there is nothing, you can do other than just nit up, let him bluff you, and hope that one of you are moved to another table.
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
Thank you this one of the best post I read
zinzir
Legend
Silver Level
Totally agree about sitting left to the money, not sure about the PS. In my opinion, buying in for the max is a move that should be reserved for the most advanced players, who expect to be among the very top players at the table. Otherwise the larger the stack the larger the loses, considering the player makes the same mistakes. And the average player totals way more mistakes than times he goes all in having the nuts.
dimon4ik89
Visionary
Platinum Level
It sits better after (left) an opponent with a large stack. There is only one reason, if the opponent has a large stack, then most likely he will play aggressively and often raise. In order for you not to waste chips in vain, you need to see the actions of this opponent before making a decision.
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nameless1537
Rock Star
Silver Level
I 100% disagree with the bolded statement above. If you are serious about playing well and want to use all of the tools available to you, you want to stay as close to (or above) max buy-in as you can. As a player, it's important to be able to distinguish between mistakes (which can sometimes be profitable) and bad luck (which always results in a loss) and aim to minimize mistakes and operate with the belief that luck will find a way to even itself out in the long run. Repeating mistakes is basically seen as a leak in your game, and any player who is serious about improving their game should always be striving to plug those holes as soon as they are identified.
I'd say... don't handicap yourself by starting yourself with a partial stack. And if you are playing at a level where you can't afford to lose, then move down levels until the losses don't really have a significant impact on you. And I do think that if you want to win at the game, you have to operate with the expectation that you will do well at the table (and not expect to lose and hope to win).
57noona
Legend
Bronze Level
I agree you need to have position on the big stack. Being on their left is key to having success at the table.
zinzir
Legend
Silver Level
[FONT=NotoSans, Lato, arial, sans-serif]Thank you for your reply, I appreciate and respect your opinion and I would like to point out a few things that I took in consideration when I formulated my own. For a less advanced player, I don't see the value of a large stack other than the opportunity to win more money having the nuts against one or more opponents who also have hands strong enough for an all in or close to all in call, a situation that does not come by often at all. Other than that, playing a short stack offers the following advantages:
1. Entices other less advanced players to call your big raises and all ins with marginal hands because it appears cheaper to them. In reality that's just an illusion and they are making a mistake and even though they will give you bad beats you will win more in the long run because you start with the better hand.
2. It limits the number of hands the true advanced players will play against you, because a short stack takes away the implied odds needed in no limit especially for making correct calls with drawing hands. For example an advanced player will call a raise with a 7-8 suited hoping to hit a straight or a flush and crack a much better hand against a large stack, but against a short stack he would think twice before doing that, simply because in the event that he hits a straight or a flush and you also have a big hand to call even an all in, there's still not enough money in your stack to mathematically justify the move in the long run.
3. It provides relative protection from being bluffed. Let's say your opponent takes a stab at the flop and you call. If you have a short stack and not a lot of money left behind, the large stack is going to be less likely to take another stab because you are almost pot committed and thus more likely to make the call or even re-raise all in, and by the same token:
4. It makes it easier for you to bluff and especially semi-bluff. Let's say you have a flush draw on the flop, going all in is going to be a powerful move even against a better flush draw, simply because your short stack denies your opponent the implied odds he needs for his own draw.[/FONT]
[FONT=NotoSans, Lato, arial, sans-serif]5. It makes it easier for less advanced players to be aggressive. Most less advaced players are tight but not aggressive enough, problem that is exacerbated by having a large stack in front of them.
I think for most people a large stack provides a sense of well being just like an expensive car. What's the use of a Rolls Royce other than to satisfy your own ego? A junker will get you from place A to place B in the same time or even faster, still provide you protection from the elements, heat and A/C, and it's a whole lot cheaper to purchase and maintain. How about designer clothes and apparel? How many useful things can you fit in a Prada bag, and how much more likely is a woman wearing such bag to become victim of a robbery, yet some women acquire thousands in credit card debt to get one.
My advice for any poker player is to play the shortest stack possible at least until he/she is able to make tough folds in a profitable way. I say in a profitable way because just making tough folds is not enough since folding the best hand is a catastrophic mistake, so those really need to be kept to a minimum.[/FONT]
[FONT=NotoSans, Lato, arial, sans-serif]About players with limitted bankrolls going to lower limits in order to afford a large stack: in my opinion any player should start at the very lowest limit available and with a short stack, play until he becomes one of the top predators at that limit, aftewards move to a large stack, keep playing and only when he feels ready move to the next limit, never jump limits, and start again with a short stack, become top predator, move to a large stack and so on. If at any time moving to a large stack leeds to consistent losses move back to a short stack and only if that still does not correct the problem move back to the previous lower limit.
PS: In no way am I claiming that my thoughts or suggestions are superior to anyone else's, just because we have different or even opposite opinions does not mean that one of us is necessarily right or wrong. Everyone who reads what we put here has the opportunity to make his own choices based on what resonates with his own rationale. So I welcome and encourage you or any other fellow CC members to further disagree with my opinions for that is the best way for all of us to learn from each other. [/FONT]