Should I fold KK next time?

P

pawelmad9

Rock Star
pokerstars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

valach007 (UTG): $10.53 (527 bb)
Ups I Do It (UTG+1): $2.00 (100 bb)
eddie3031 (MP): $0.43 (22 bb)
numelen (MP+1): $2.19 (110 bb)
ArendtHobbes (LP): $2.19 (110 bb)
KRITAYA (CO): $2.58 (129 bb)
CodeHarry (BU): $3.90 (195 bb)
EviXen (SB): $2.59 (130 bb)
Speletajss (BB): $2.54 (127 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Ups I Do It) is UTG+1 with K K
valach007 (UTG) raises to $0.04, Ups I Do It (UTG+1) 3-bets to $0.15, 4 players fold, CodeHarry (BU) 4-bets to $0.26, 2 players fold, valach007 (UTG) calls $0.22, Ups I Do It (UTG+1) 5-bets to $0.56, CodeHarry (BU) calls $0.30, valach007 (UTG) calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.71) 3 7 7 (3 players)
valach007 (UTG) bets $1.65, Ups I Do It (UTG+1) calls $1.44 (all-in), CodeHarry (BU) raises to $3.30, valach007 (UTG) raises to $4.95, CodeHarry (BU) calls $0.04 (all-in)

Turn: ($9.83) A (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($9.83) J (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $9.83 (Rake: $0.30)

Showdown:
valach007 (UTG) shows 7 A (a full house, Sevens full of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 29%, Flop: 79%, Turn: 90%, River: 100%)

CodeHarry (BU) shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

Ups I Do It (UTG+1) shows K K (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 54%, Flop: 12%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

valach007 (UTG) wins $9.53
 
P

pentazepam

Visionary
If you have half your stack in the middle with the next best over pair you have to put the rest in on the flop.

If an ace came especially multi-way you are often beat.

But a low paired board (non-mono) is fist pump all-in.

Since they didn't get it in it is unlikely that someone has AA (HU you can trap but dangerous with three-players) so you are only beat by 33, 77 and 7x (probably only A7s and maybe 87s). The 7x hands are really gambling here but the other two players are very deep so it can maybe be justified to see a flop.

Unlucky for you but nothing wrong. (PF you only fold KK against the tightest and most passive players if it gets all-in there). And with this flop it is automatic to put in the rest without an ace.
 
greatgame230

greatgame230

Visionary
ok, first this is my opinion, why do the 5 bet? there you should go with everything and let's see if he with A7 the villain made a call I think it was the only mistake, but with KK from my point of view it makes no sense to make a 5 bet
 
Vallet

Vallet

Legend
Awards
12
You should note that valach007 has 527 bb. He can extend his range of hands to see the flop. You tried to pick up the pre-flop chips, but failed.
 
RasterGFX

RasterGFX

Rock Star
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Ups I Do It) is UTG+1 with K K
valach007 (UTG) raises to $0.04, Ups I Do It (UTG+1) 3-bets to $0.15, 4 players fold, CodeHarry (BU) 4-bets to $0.26, 2 players fold, valach007 (UTG) calls $0.22, Ups I Do It (UTG+1) 5-bets to $0.56, CodeHarry (BU) calls $0.30, valach007 (UTG) calls $0.30

If it was me playing I would have called the UTG initial raise and possibly those 4 next would have still folded, then the Button may or may not have raised that much (then UTG would call and I would call). This would have been my way of seeing the flop cheap but with a possible trap being laid. I would have folded after the flop with the UTG big raise (even though KK is good I won't hesitate to fold). My strategy is a bit wonky though (some may even say donkey). :D
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Awards
1
Postflop this is just a cooler and a completely automatic stack-off with a stack to pot ratio of just 1. However I do think, you kind of created this cooler by 5-betting way to small. When you have called the 4-bet, the pot is 3 x 0,26 + 0,03 = 0,81, and you only made it 0,30 more for them to call.

So your 5-bet was <40% of the pot, and preflop that is just amazingly good pot odds to give them. Mathematically the guy with A7s is not even making a mistake by calling you. Even if he knew your cards, he would still have to call getting this good odds.

Because of your stack size, you cant really make it much larger without committing yourself to the pot, but then just go all in! It is pretty much standard, that a 5-bet is all-in with 100BB, and even though this was an undersized 4-bet, there was also a cold caller putting extra dead money in the pot, so jamming here would be completely fine. Or if you think, that generate more mistakes, make it 1$ and then jam all flops, if you get action.

If you go all or raise to 1$, A7s likely to away, and if he still call it off, at least you got your money in good, and he made a clear mistake. More realistically though you get action from QQ, A7s fold, and you dubble up rather than getting stacked. So this hand is all about the problem, that come from using an incorrect raise size preflop.
 
S

sryImPro

Legend
I don't think you should fold KK next time, by what was going on in pre flop action you could be sure that neither of your opponents is holding AA, because we all know that it's a classic at Zoom tables. Actually, this kind of flop would encourage me to keep going because there's no way i would put someone on 7. Well played
 
A

althernatea

Rising Star
i do think it really depend on the flops. If the flop is draw straight or flood KK is mean nothing.
 
B

berryryan2488

Rock Star
I don't think you did anything wrong other than the 5 bet being a bit high. The fact that they both simply called that 5 bet tells you that you can put them on the ranges that they had. Valach007 had nearly 3x as many big blinds than you and CodeHarry so his range would have been pretty wide to open up. Valach007 had implied odds but without connecting his ace had no fold equity on the flop. Pretty loose call UTG considering yours and CodeHarrys's stack sizes as well as the fact that he was being bet into from players who had better position and who were less likely to raise like that unless they both had monsters. Putting either player on pocket aces would have been extremely unlikely but something like AK, QQ JJ would make more sense. Valach007 should have probably checked if he didn't connect with the flop and folded to your raise with CodeHarry calling it. It would have been an awesome fold if you put him on sevens after he bet into you but his hand connecting on that particular flop is extremely unlikely. But a shove like that, especially at the microstakes, always makes me nervous. Odds were in your favor but he got lucky. CodeHarry was screwed the whole time. Maybe be less aggressive and stick with 3 bets is the only questionable part of the hand.
 
Last edited:
zinzir

zinzir

Legend
Awards
3
If you went all-in off the bet, most likely you would have doubled up since Valach would have folded his A7 and CodeHarry would have called with QQ. With your small raises you sucked Valach in by giving him good implied odds to call before flop, so in my opinion there is no need to stop playing KK, just make sure to raise enough before flop and either win the hand right there or isolate one opponent.
 
S

STARSC27

Rising Star
So you are playing the 2$ Buy-in Zoom Cash game.Ok first of all let me give you an advice about re-raising pre-flop.In those stakes players are often really loose so they will call you with hands that they shouldn't,that means you can choose a bigger size when you raise.Your 3-betting size was something like x3.7 I think,well you can go even bigger something like x4.5 maybe even x5 in this spot especially when the UTG has that huge stack,because usually when those guys have a short stack they play even more loose.You might say that from x3.7 to x4.5/5 isn't such a big difference but on the long run you will make more money,if this happens 10 times you will go from x37 to x45/50,do you know what I am saying?Anyway after you 3-bet that guy 4-bet really small UTG called and you as well chose a small sizing to 5-bet.In this spot I am pretty sure that the UTG player doesn't have such a strong hand because he would have shoved,but the other guy can still have a strong hand even if he 4-bet small,so I by shoving in that spot you deny UTG's equity and you get value from the other guy's worse hands (JJ,QQ,AK).As played I am always calling the flop because you are only beaten by A7 suited (2 combos),87 suited (2 combos),67 suited (2 combos),77 (1 combo),MAYBE 33 (3 combos) if UTG is that loose and you are beating any 88,99,1010,JJ (4x6=24 combos) and all the flush draws that guy could have which I guarantee that are at least 10 combos,so you beat at least 34 hands and you are beaten by 10 hands and you are getting a great price so in this spot you have to call.
 
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