Short stack 3bet shove range?

Killdalimper

Killdalimper

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Being short stacked (40bb) you dont have much room for maneuvers and you gotta tighten your range. I usually 3bet shove against a raise with 99+ AQ+. Is this a good range for 3bet shoving pre? Is this even a standard play for a short stack? How would you play if you buy in for table minimum?
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

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Being short stacked (40bb) you dont have much room for maneuvers and you gotta tighten your range. I usually 3bet shove against a raise with 99+ AQ+. Is this a good range for 3bet shoving pre? Is this even a standard play for a short stack? How would you play if you buy in for table minimum?


That's a pretty tight range and you should be ahead most of the time.

As long as you prevail more than you lose then that should be profitable.

You might get some folds depending? So throw that in the mathematical mix.

Good luck !
 
G

gorgos

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Maybe instead of shoving just try a 3 bet especially with AQ+ and 40 bb. you might be able to extract some value and you might get to play against hands you have dominated.
 
KristaK

KristaK

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hi hi
i agree @BullXT - wow 40bb?
i been taught 15bb and less is short stack in mtt
then shove/fold decisions become dependant on how many bb exactly, what is icm situation, what position are you in, what was action before you
i believe only time it "any two cards" is 1bb remain or 2bb in small blind,
 
P

pentazepam

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40 bb is a middle stack.

Under 20 bb is a short stack.

You can play a lot more poker than to 3-bet as a shove with a tight range.
 
Killdalimper

Killdalimper

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hi hi
i agree @BullXT - wow 40bb?
i been taught 15bb and less is short stack in mtt
then shove/fold decisions become dependant on how many bb exactly, what is icm situation, what position are you in, what was action before you
i believe only time it "any two cards" is 1bb remain or 2bb in small blind,


Im talking about the cash games tho! :D
 
akmost

akmost

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We shouldn't participate in cash games with less than the initial max amount.If you are serious about you game you should also have chosen the auto top-up option.

You may lose less when you lose but you will also win less when you win. Having less than 100bbs or 200bbs is some tables actually it changes the tables dynamic.It's something like open limping. Opponents will have less fold equity when you shove or they can apply more pressure to you more easily.
 
Killdalimper

Killdalimper

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We shouldn't participate in cash games with less than the initial max amount.If you are serious about you game you should also have chosen the auto top-up option.

You may lose less when you lose but you will also win less when you win. Having less than 100bbs or 200bbs is some tables actually it changes the tables dynamic.It's something like open limping. Opponents will have less fold equity when you shove or they can apply more pressure to you more easily.


I am in fact aware of pros and cons of short stacking at cash tables. I was just looking for
some advice on 3bet shoving ranges.
 
P

pentazepam

Visionary
I am in fact aware of pros and cons of short stacking at cash tables. I was just looking for
some advice on 3bet shoving ranges.

You are too deep to shove to a normal open-raise unless you are up against total calling stations pre-flop.

A least if you want to win more than the minimum. Exceptions can maybe be made if several players have cold-called and there is a lot of money in the pot already.

If I notice that you only shove with a value range his thin I can exploit you by raising and folding anything but aces or kings to a shove. Since I only have invested an open-raise I can even fold AK and QQ if you don't start to bluff and still make a profit. But if I call with AK and QQ also I'm still ahead most of the time. Just that I don't have to "gamble" if I don't want to when you over bet. I get it back then I have the nuts or the second nuts pre-flop.

So don't over bet all-in then you only get called by better most of the time.
 
NCDaddy

NCDaddy

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Why 3 bet shove with that range with that stack size? If you have position, just healthy raise it. If you get called, with that range, you can see a board and try to take it down next betting round. I can see if you think if you're behind and out of position shoving but....i think your stack size is still too big for that move. Now, if you're just trying to keep an aggro image up..I can see doing this.
 
Killdalimper

Killdalimper

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You are too deep to shove to a normal open-raise unless you are up against total calling stations pre-flop.

A least if you want to win more than the minimum. Exceptions can maybe be made if several players have cold-called and there is a lot of money in the pot already.

If I notice that you only shove with a value range his thin I can exploit you by raising and folding anything but aces or kings to a shove. Since I only have invested an open-raise I can even fold AK and QQ if you don't start to bluff and still make a profit. But if I call with AK and QQ also I'm still ahead most of the time. Just that I don't have to "gamble" if I don't want to when you over bet. I get it back then I have the nuts or the second nuts pre-flop.

So don't over bet all-in then you only get called by better most of the time.


Let's say I buy in for $0.80 at a nl2 table. I get dealt AK in BB. BTN raises to $0.06 , I re-raise to $0.24 , BTN calls and we miss the flop.Now what? Honestly I think 3betting pre and check folding the flop ( because we are short stacked ) is -EV.
Plus, this is a strategy to exploit weaker players and extract the maximum value out of them.
 
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pentazepam

Visionary
Let's say I buy in for $0.80 at a nl2 table. I get dealt AK in BB. BTN raises to $0.06 , I re-raise to $0.24 , BTN calls and we miss the flop.Now what? Honestly I think 3betting pre and check folding the flop ( because we are short stacked ) is -EV.
Plus, this is a strategy to exploit weaker players and extract the maximum value out of them.


You check most often when you miss with AK but you can still have the best hand at showdown and win. If you are up against an aggressive, bluffy player you can call one street if they bet - but most players have you beat when they bet. If they call all your 3-bets pre-flop they also call then you hit with AK - and when you 3-bet all your premium pairs. You must see AK as a part of a range not just a separate hand. It is ok to check-fold AK when you miss.

If you find it difficult to play out of position when you miss in a 3-bet pot you can also have a very wide calling range in BB - including AK.

But as I wrote before: if you are up against idiots that calls an all-in with all kinds of Ax, low pairs, suited connectors: just push it.

But you don't learn how to play poker that way (unless you have maybe a 20 bb stack or less) .
 
Killdalimper

Killdalimper

Enthusiast
Thank you all for the information. Basically I thought 40bb buy-in on cash tables is considered a short stack hence the push fold strategy that I've been implementing for sometime. So I should just play normal poker with a 40bb stack I reckon.
 
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