Set-mining in 3-bet Pots

[Steveg1976]

Well TBH Steve im quite enjoying this discussion... Its a lot better than the 'All-in or fold cuz he ain bluffin' type ones that we often see.

Im learning from this one!!

Now I am really thinking about this becuase a ~12:1 call for set mining situation sets up a bad SPR if the target is 13, which I swear is what was recommended for SC and small PP. If the SPR of 13 is recommended (I know that is a big if) then which is more important/advantages to the player, the SPR or the call to stack ratio?

I will look at PNL tonight and see if I can come to a conclussion.

 

[WVHillbilly]

So before you could contemplate set-mining a 3-bet pot, stacks would need to be around 200BB

Depending on how big the 3bet is I'd say you could start considering it @ 150bb deep. Also you're more likely to get someones entire deep stack in a 3bet pot so you might even be able to do it a big smaller than that but not much.

 

[vanquish]

you guys should seriously stop playing pairs "for set mining"


yea sets are cool and indestructible, but there's so much value in playing them beyond just trying to make sets and shipping in on flops

 

[Steveg1976]

you guys should seriously stop playing pairs "for set mining"


yea sets are cool and indestructible, but there's so much value in playing them beyond just trying to make sets and shipping in on flops

I agree but the OP was about set mining in bet pots. Then I went and got my concepts all confused.

Also there is a fine line between playing pp for more than set value and FPS. I flirt with that line a lot unfortunately.

 

[orangepeeleo]

the thing people need to take into account in regards to playing small pairs is that they're often useful beyond set-mining, generally in position

in other words, if you can steal a raised pot when you don't make your set, or can get implied odds on a draw (such as 66 on a 754), you can play them profitably without getting 12:1... this is generally better when you are the one with the initiative (when you are the one that raised), so it's generally better to be raising with small pairs than open limping them. for this reason its also often profitable to 3bet with small pairs, but not profitable to call 3bets with them with the intention of hitting a set and jamming (because you won't get to steal any pots this way)

Good advice man, and a good post in general i've learned a ton from this lol, are we only 3betting pp's IP though?? I imagine we can't go around 3betting 66 from the BB after a CO raise b/c our initiative in the pot doesn't count for much then if a high card or 2 comes down on the flop??

 

[widowmaker89]

Good advice man, and a good post in general i've learned a ton from this lol, are we only 3betting pp's IP though?? I imagine we can't go around 3betting 66 from the BB after a CO raise b/c our initiative in the pot doesn't count for much then if a high card or 2 comes down on the flop??

It totally depends on the villian and how he responds to 3bets and 3bet pots. If someone folds too much or plays fit or fold on flops you can raise small PP for sure. If someone calls too much and doesnt let go easily I am not raising(although I will raise KQ type hands for value).

 

[vanquish]

Good advice man, and a good post in general i've learned a ton from this lol, are we only 3betting pp's IP though?? I imagine we can't go around 3betting 66 from the BB after a CO raise b/c our initiative in the pot doesn't count for much then if a high card or 2 comes down on the flop??

It totally depends on the villian and how he responds to 3bets and 3bet pots. If someone folds too much or plays fit or fold on flops you can raise small PP for sure. If someone calls too much and doesnt let go easily I am not raising(although I will raise KQ type hands for value).

this

 

[IMNER]

Thanks guys, this discussion may help me plug some serious leaks in my game. I have been set mining out of position in 3 bet pots too and not considering the implied odds.

 

[damon789]

to set mine or to to set mine

the thing people need to take into account in regards to playing small pairs is that they're often useful beyond set-mining, generally in position

in other words, if you can steal a raised pot when you don't make your set, or can get implied odds on a draw (such as 66 on a 754), you can play them profitably without getting 12:1... this is generally better when you are the one with the initiative (when you are the one that raised), so it's generally better to be raising with small pairs than open limping them. for this reason its also often profitable to 3bet with small pairs, but not profitable to call 3bets with them with the intention of hitting a set and jamming (because you won't get to steal any pots this way)

Hey Vanquish, good points mate u took the discussion and turned it in it's head looking at the situation from a different perspective. and i also learned what "set mining" means he he the whole idea of raising with small pocket pairs i like for balanced strategy as if u do hit a set u r more likely to stack someone if they hit TopTop than if u limped. i personally like the idea of Harringtons 20 times their bet in the Villans stack to account for the times u miss. caling a 3 bet out of position is def a bigdraw back in any situation but missing with a spp and being first to act postflop would have to be up there with the worst you just dont know where u r at so with relative position it gives u another way to win the pot. good postings people wd.