SB : Pot odds Vs OOP. Confused

A

Alfoldem

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Oct 12, 2006
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I will keep the example as general as possible,

Start of a SnG – 10 players
Blinds 5 / 10
Stacks – 1500

Im small blind, the rest of the table limps in, its costs me 5 to see into a pot of 95.

Should I routinely be limping in here with ATC due to the pot odds or does the fact that im out of position for every betting round outweigh the odds?

Does it “depend” on how comfortable a person is playing OOP?
Does it “depend” on how aggressive or loose a player is?
Is the answer different if the table was 6 handed?
Is it different if it was a MTT / SNG / cash game?

Im confused as I have limped in with junk due to the odds on offer and subsequently folded but have a feeling this is a leak in my game. On the other hand when I don’t limp in this situation I occasionally see the monster hand I would of flopped. I know this is being results orientated – hence the post.

Interested to hear if people adhere to a hard and fast rule.

Thanks
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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early on just fold. get an understanding of the table. it's hard to extract chips oop, as well as early in a sng - so both working against you is bad news.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Well considering pot odds strictly, you should be limping with ATC. There's a metagame aspect in STTs that I've tried to encorporate for as long as I can remember - and that's the 'tag early, lag late' thing. If you've never heard of it, do a search and you'll get some good info.

I personally will limp here with basically the better half of starting hands in a sng. It's all about implied odds.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I'm not at joose or Chuck's level, but as Chuck says, pot odds say you should be limping.

Just be ready to throw away almost everything unless you hit the flop really hard. Because of that, I don't play anything that doesn't have much chance.

And there's nothing wrong with tossing it either, like joose says. The chips you don't throw in now will come in handy when you later get a chance to double up.


How's that for a wishywashy answer?
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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meh early on it's just not worth it to put yourself in marginal situations. this is similar to posting in MP after just sitting at a table, if you ask me. dont be overanxious to get into the fray. take a few orbits, do yourself a favor and learn something about the people you are trying to take money from.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Unless your good at reading flop textures, and arnt prepared to lose a ton of chips when you flop top pair with no kicker then fold. If your confident in you post flop playing abitities then limping for a small amount of your stack is fine. Considering that at the early stages of a sit and go you still have maniacs that will stack with very marginal hands.
 
D

drizzt

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Jul 23, 2007
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I agree, early on I stay more conservative due to people who will call all your bets with bad draws and hit them. Think about it this way: You limp in with Ac-5d offsuit and with the pot odds it's a good bet in some positions because that ace is sweet. the flop is As-5h-6h. Now you think, great! I just hit two pair. At this point you could be ahead, but then you could bet and get called/reraise by someone who also limped in with A-6 off suit (i've seen it happen to me and others a lot). Also, there is a good chance someone, especially the blind, might have limped in with 3-4 suited in hearts or even unsuited, 78suited/nonsuited, or A-7 or higher that could destroy you on that turn/river, or ATC that are suited in hearts and that person loves to bet on flush draws. It's great to think that you could get so much out of people because you limped in with some odd starting hands due to odds, but that applies to everyone else, and usually you'll have 3+ opponents who also limped in, thus the odds that the turn/river will make a hand that'll beat your two pair with that flop much greater. If you have less than 3 people in, limping isn't too bad of an idea, but remember that a lot of people like to go all in asap with a good-premium hand to get chip lead, and you might just see a lot of your limp bets forfeited when you get re raised by a large amount (many times close to all in) by someone in a later position than you.. To me, that's normally spells me loosing small chunks of chips quick because of those other possibilities (that are not usually unfounded unfortunately). If you're in late position you'll be able to see who's trash hand hit the flop, and it wont cost you more than the pre-flop call.

I like to limp in when i'm in very late position or in the BB of course, otherwise the risk is too great with a lot of people going in with anything. Even if you raise, raise a good amount; even if you raise 4x the BB, if its only 20, a lot of people will see an 80-120 chip raise as small compared to their 1500+ chip stack. Thus they're more likely to call with A-anything suited/unsuited, suited/unsuited connectors, etc.

I like to just survive the first couple blinds, only going in with a premium starting hand. That way, if I double up early then i can easily sit out and watch, and if I dont lose chips early, like it was mentioned above: when I do get a premium hand doubling up through the lucky high chip people will be easy, you might even triple up if you've got two crazy people who got lucky and have huge chip stacks call your all in, i've seen it many times before.

But then again, if you have a read on everyone then you should be able to limp in and be much safer, although not likely that early in the tournament.
 
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