Pre-flop raising in PLO8

[Bombjack]

What are the requirements for raising pre-flop in PLO8? Should you always pot it, or is a smaller raise sometimes in order?

Was I right to raise here for example?

***** Hand History for Game 5392400647 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi-Lo - Tuesday, October 24, 17:31:30 ET 2006
Table Table 95240 (No DP) (real money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: rebus74 ( $35.20 )
Seat 5: jamman28 ( $44.35 )
Seat 7: Crock37 ( $10.79 )
Seat 8: Snusy ( $23.29 )
Seat 2: Bombjack_x ( $25.33 )
Seat 4: Reidy_nice ( $24.75 )
Seat 10: komozubi ( $2.27 )
Seat 6: woodan ( $20.85 )
Seat 9: steffil ( $27.70 )
Seat 3: lutonian111 ( $4.25 )
Reidy_nice posts small blind [$0.10].
woodan posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bombjack_x 3♦ 3♠ 2♥ A♦
Crock37 calls [$0.25].
Snusy folds.
steffil calls [$0.25].
komozubi calls [$0.25].
rebus74 folds.
Bombjack_x raises [$1.60].
lutonian111 folds.
Reidy_nice folds.
woodan folds.
jamman28 has left the table.
Crock37 calls [$1.35].
steffil folds.
komozubi folds.
** Dealing Flop ** Q♦ 2♦ J♣
Crock37 checks.
Bombjack_x bets [$3.05].
Crock37 folds.
Bombjack_x does not show cards.
Bombjack_x wins $6.90

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Basically, think about why you raise preflop in holdem, the same principles apply in PLO8. You could be raising for value with a big hand (as in your example), or you could be raising to thin the field (something like KK42 in the CO plays badly if you limp and the button and blinds all call but if you raise you will often either take down the pot or get heads up, where KK42 is much stronger), or you could just be raising to steal (not often recommended in low limit PLO8 without a decent hand though ).

I almost exclusively pot it when first in, and most of the time I'll pot anything worth raising with limpers in front too. I suppose the best course of action depends on what you're trying to acheive with your raise, if you don't want it called you're pretty much obliged to pot it.

 

[Schatzdog]

If I've got a very strong drawing hand then I'll make a smallish raise to build the pot. Hopefully I get a good flop and then I drag people along for value.

I think DM is spot on in saying it depends what you want to achieve. Are you isolating or getting value?

 

[Bombjack]

So can anyone give some examples of kind of hands should I be raising with for value? It seems like, at the limits I'm playing, at least helf the time a pre-flop raise means they have AAxx. But is it worth a raise with a hand like A23x? Seems like you're only drawing at the low end. By potting it you might be able to get rid of a weak A2xx, but raising for value would probably be better.

Maybe I should read a book on PLO8 (do any exist?).

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

As with most things in poker, it depends.

Asking "should I be raising A23x?" is a bit like asking in holdem "Should I raise AJo?" In EP at a loose-passive table, it's probably best to limp A23x. On the button when folded to you or with just a weak limper in front, raise it all day long.

 

[Schatzdog]

I think your hand has good potential PF to scoop, so I wouldn't be isolating here, more looking to build the pot in which case a smaller raise or a call. I think you're right though in that PF pot raising is usually AAxx (I certainly do it more often than not).

In terms of books, I'm assuming you've got SS2 with a section by Bobby Baldwin on PLO8.

 

[t1riel]

A2xx (x= any card under 9) is usually a good hand to raise with, especially if they are double suited. Any card combination that is under 9 is a potential preflop raise. I'm no expert on Omaha Hi-lo and don't take my advice as the "correct" way to play but that's my take.

 

[Welly]

To get an answer you firstly really need to understand more about Omaha hand evaluation. Quite often contradicing the common perception, Omaha isnt a game (where because you have 4 cards), the hands become closer in pre-flop value ("everyone has a hand mentality").

Quite the opposite in fact. Starting hands drop off from Great/V.good down to v.bad in a very rapid manner (much more rapidly than holdem). There isnt really much mid-strength center ground. The best hands (compared to a massive chunck of the rest) have a disproportionate pre-flop power (compared to holdem), however that power spectrum rapidly dillutes as we go post flop (ie the power is most significant pre-flop).

What you should be concluding as a consequence is that isolation is more important pre-flop, but most importantly isolation where you have already derived value and can imply further value from over-keen limpers. Hence, raising to pot pre-flop is appropriate with strength and multiple limpers.

It is when we move to post flop that value bets catch up with the importance of isolation, and at this point betting less than the pot becomes more appropriate in certain situations eg With a virtually un-assailable nuts, or nuts with improvement draws (freerolling to improvement), then you are obviously more concerned about maximising value or extraction, and not wanting to scare too many off the pot.

Welly