Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[John A]

I'd lean towards a fold pre-flop. Being OOP in a MW 4-bet pot is almost never good (unless you have something better than JJ).

As played, I'd fold the flop as well. This is std GTO sizing in this spot. He's betting MW as the pre-flop aggressor. I'd give him credit and dump the hand.

Turn is a fold also. I don't think you can expect him to double barrel bluff AK here, especially with his sizing. He should have very few bluffs at this point really, so it's almost all value.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

Hero (SB): $50 (100 bb)
BB: $63.06 (126.1 bb)VPIP: 47, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 3.1, Hands: 194 <(())><
UTG+1: $137.15 (274.3 bb)
UTG+2: $50 (100 bb)
MP1: $90.58 (181.2 bb)VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 3, AF: 2.7, Hands: 175
MP2: $57.15 (114.3 bb)
MP3: $79.62 (159.2 bb)
CO: $22.80 (45.6 bb)
BTN: $51.42 (102.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J♣ J♠
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.50, 4 folds, Hero raises to $4.50, BB calls $4, MP1 raises to $12.65, Hero calls $8.15, BB calls $8.15
MP1 has 10% 4bet, small sample but too high to fold JJ methinks. I'm concerned by the low 3B though for an otherwise medium aggressive player. The presence of the fish is a small concern, I feel like it strenghtens the range of MP1 taking away most of his A5s type bluffs. He should need a hand to take on a potential calling station fish.

Flop: ($37.95) 3♥ Q♥ Q♣ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $11.90, Hero calls $11.90, BB folds I don't think I can fold to this sizing with all his bluffs still present. Calling looks the only real option. I was hoping the fish was going to hang around on the flop as it means MP will need a hand to fire the turn.

Turn: ($61.75) T♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $29.34, Hero?

If we give him a 4bet range of JJ-AA AK and all his bluffs in we have around 50% equity so standard call?

Glad your still playing FIG. One thing i do remember even though its been ages is playing TT or JJ from the blinds, cold calling is just terrible in these spots you either have to play them a lot more aggressive or fold. Cold calling OOP is bleeding money imo.... this flop is pretty good for us, we should be great most of the time .... ugh i thought check-raise flop but this is bad considering we will be giving free cards to the hearts, we will need to lead.... OOP we have to have tempo with our hard hands or we get crushed by our terrible positon.

 

[John A]

Glad your still playing FIG. One thing i do remember even though its been ages is playing TT or JJ from the blinds, cold calling is just terrible in these spots you either have to play them a lot more aggressive or fold. Cold calling OOP is bleeding money imo.... this flop is pretty good for us, we should be great most of the time .... ugh i thought check-raise flop but this is bad considering we will be giving free cards to the hearts, we will need to lead.... OOP we have to have tempo with our hard hands or we get crushed by our terrible positon.

The funny thing is that since more people play a more GTO game they play less aggressive with a lot of their ranges then they have in years past. There's a lot more checking on the flop or turn then in the past, and as a result your cold calling ranges can expand. There's more factors occurring as well, and I'm not going to get into all of them because that would amost be a book's worth of info, but essentially cold calling ranges in today's games have changed.

 

[John A]

Happy holidays everyone! I hope everyone has a safe and fun holiday season.

I haven't been playing very much over the past year+, but I still monitor this post if you run across some difficult hands or just want some general poker advice.

 

[Figaroo2]

Hi guys, just wanted to take a minute to wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy year, most of all good health! These days people don't spend much time or thought on some personal words to their friends and family, they just copy and paste some random message and send it on. So after all we've been though together this year I want to thank you for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018 - you’re the best gymnastics group anyone could ask for. Best wishes, Helen

 

[Alucard]

Happy Chistmas to all!

 

[gustav197poker]

Hi guys, just wanted to take a minute to wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy year, most of all good health! These days people don't spend much time or thought on some personal words to their friends and family, they just copy and paste some random message and send it on. So after all we've been though together this year I want to thank you for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018 - you’re the best gymnastics group anyone could ask for. Best wishes, Helen

Lol. Happy holidays guys!!

 

[John A]

Hi guys, just wanted to take a minute to wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy year, most of all good health! These days people don't spend much time or thought on some personal words to their friends and family, they just copy and paste some random message and send it on. So after all we've been though together this year I want to thank you for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018 - you’re the best gymnastics group anyone could ask for. Best wishes, Helen

Agreed. Especially now in these times it's important to remember and value all your friends and family, and make that special extra effort to show that appreciation. With love, Frank.

 

[John A]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 1.00(BB)
BB (73.6) [VPIP: 22.6% | PFR: 9.7% | AGG: 15.4% | Hands: 31]
HJ (81.3) [VPIP: 15.2% | PFR: 6.1% | AGG: 9.7% | Hands: 99]
CO (106.1) [VPIP: 22.7% | PFR: 9.3% | AGG: 16.7% | Hands: 76]
HERO (105.3) [VPIP: 31.5% | PFR: 24.4% | AGG: 37.9% | Hands: 5164]
SB (103.4) [VPIP: 13.3% | PFR: 12% | AGG: 21.4% | Hands: 87]

Dealt to Hero: T:diamond: A:diamond:

HJ Raises To 3 BBs, CO Calls 3, HERO Calls 3, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [7.46 effective]
Flop (10.5): T:club: T:heart: 4:heart:
HJ Bets 5 (Rem. Stack: 73.3), CO Calls 5 (Rem. Stack: 98.1), HERO Calls 5 (Rem. Stack: 97.3)

Turn (25.5): T:club: T:heart: 4:heart: 7:club:
HJ Checks, CO Checks, HERO Bets 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 84.2), HJ Calls 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 60.2), CO Calls 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 85)

River (64.9): T:club: T:heart: 4:heart: 7:club: K:heart:
HJ Checks, CO Checks, HERO Checks

 

[gustav197poker]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 1.00(BB)
BB (73.6) [VPIP: 22.6% | PFR: 9.7% | AGG: 15.4% | Hands: 31]
HJ (81.3) [VPIP: 15.2% | PFR: 6.1% | AGG: 9.7% | Hands: 99]
CO (106.1) [VPIP: 22.7% | PFR: 9.3% | AGG: 16.7% | Hands: 76]
HERO (105.3) [VPIP: 31.5% | PFR: 24.4% | AGG: 37.9% | Hands: 5164]
SB (103.4) [VPIP: 13.3% | PFR: 12% | AGG: 21.4% | Hands: 87]

Dealt to Hero: T♦ A♦

HJ Raises To 3 BBs, CO Calls 3, HERO Calls 3, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [7.46 effective]
Flop (10.5): T♣ T♥ 4♥
HJ Bets 5 (Rem. Stack: 73.3), CO Calls 5 (Rem. Stack: 98.1), HERO Calls 5 (Rem. Stack: 97.3)

Turn (25.5): T♣ T♥ 4♥ 7♣
HJ Checks, CO Checks, HERO Bets 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 84.2), HJ Calls 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 60.2), CO Calls 13.1 (Rem. Stack: 85)

River (64.9): T♣ T♥ 4♥ 7♣ K♥
HJ Checks, CO Checks, HERO Checks

I like the passive preflop line against the PFR, as its opening is quite narrow. Only 6% of the hands, trusting that the sample is randomized. We also have a position on the villains and we want to keep their rangues intact and without eliminations.
On the flop we are blocking hands that represent fold equity for us, such as Ad-9d and Ad-5d, as they have their SDV neutralized against 2 ranges perceived as strong or closed. For this reason, I prefer to extract value from combos of flush draws and some medium pockets, trusting that we have not altered the Vs ranges in preflop.
On the turn I'm pushing my stack, and we don't expect too much folds, when we represent dominated draws and the villains have the best flush draw combos for this texture.
We also unlock up to 3 spade combos as bluff catchers: AK-AJ, for when they don't believe us. And only we are behind a maximum of 8 combos that beat us on the turn.
As played, the turn bet is correct and also I agree with the check line OTR, because our perceived range is quite weak and the K favors the HJ range with the best full house scale.
Greetings.

 

[Figaroo2]

Preflop is fine with me as well.
It feels to me like we are missing some value in this hand.
We could raise the flop, I'd expect the nits overpairs to call and the 2nd players flush draws.
We could bet a little bigger on the turn maybe 17-18bb
and/or bet the river.
As played the river King firmly hits the nits range I think we can bet the river about 30-40% pot and get called here by AK. These sort of low aggro players rarely bluff raise the river.

 

[John A]

Preflop is fine with me as well.
It feels to me like we are missing some value in this hand.
We could raise the flop, I'd expect the nits overpairs to call and the 2nd players flush draws.
We could bet a little bigger on the turn maybe 17-18bb
and/or bet the river.
As played the river King firmly hits the nits range I think we can bet the river about 30-40% pot and get called here by AK. These sort of low aggro players rarely bluff raise the river.

What would my range be for raising a paired board MW though?

Turn sizing, most people on other forums thought was too big. I kind of split the middle since I'm not really in this spot a lot and I'm looking to get value from over pairs and draws.

River is pretty close. Of course I want value from worse Tx, but the problem is you'd expect them to raise at some point, so most of my opponents range is going to draws (some connected) and over pairs.

 

[John A]

Even though I'm busy I'm still checking this thread if anyone has questions or hands.

 

[Figaroo2]

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $26.35 (105.4 bb)
BB: $68.82 (275.3 bb)
UTG+2: $18.68 (74.7 bb)
MP1: $32.28 (129.1 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
MP3: $44.27 (177.1 bb)
Hero (CO): $35.48 (141.9 bb)
BTN: $27.38 (109.5 bb) VPIP: 28, PFR: 24, 3B: 21, AF: 1.6, Hands: 152

Preflop: Hero is CO with J♣ J♦
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.90, BTN calls $2.65
(villain has 3 bet my last 3 opens in succession, two of which I folded, I read him as just a preflop monkey, post flop he's fairly passive)

Flop: ($10.15) K♥ A♣ 7♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($10.15) J♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $2.91, BTN calls $2.91

River: ($15.97) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $19.57, Hero?

versus an aggro it feels like I have to call as I beat all the 2 pairs. Don't expect to see many 10s.

 

[gustav197poker]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $26.35 (105.4 bb)
BB: $68.82 (275.3 bb)
UTG+2: $18.68 (74.7 bb)
MP1: $32.28 (129.1 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
MP3: $44.27 (177.1 bb)
Hero (CO): $35.48 (141.9 bb)
BTN: $27.38 (109.5 bb) VPIP: 28, PFR: 24, 3B: 21, AF: 1.6, Hands: 152

Preflop: Hero is CO with J♣ J♦
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.90, BTN calls $2.65
(villain has 3 bet my last 3 opens in succession, two of which I folded, I read him as just a preflop monkey, post flop he's fairly passive)

Flop: ($10.15) K♥ A♣ 7♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($10.15) J♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $2.91, BTN calls $2.91

River: ($15.97) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $19.57, Hero?

versus an aggro it feels like I have to call as I beat all the 2 pairs. Don't expect to see many 10s.

If your goal with 4-betting is to get them to give up dominated hands, you need to be bigger for your 4-bet range. A larger proportional size will induce a greater amount of exploitive folds, when we have a tighter range image. On the contrary, when our perceived range is wider, the big 4-bet will achieve the polarization of both ranks (hero and villain). In this second case, it will be convenient to make a smaller size of 4-bet, because we will obtain little fold equity and we are not deep stack.
The flop check line is reasonable. Another option is cbet 25% pot, but given our SPR there is no significant difference in these options.
As played, the delayed continuation bet on the turn, indicates that you probably 4-bet preflop with hands like: Ax; Qx. With the size that you chosed you represent a heart blocker, as any other hand will look for a larger size, to make up for the bet not made on the flop. And any flush draw combo will now check on the turn, because by not betting on the flop, you want to hide your strength to induce bets from BTN who seem to want a lot of action, from preflop in this hand.
On the river the Qh appears and when we check, we are representing the strongest part of our range. However, it is unlikely that the villain will believe this, as it is possible to perceive a blocker in us, but having a flush in our range is really a far cry, considering that the board eliminates most of the blockers of heart.
In short, we represent the best hand with our river check line. So when the villain doesn't believe this, he knows that he must represent the top of his range when he decides to jam, because basically there are no sets in our range. And in this hand, the most expected is TT in the V range. Since BTN was able to float comfortably in the previous streets, because we did not print enough pressure.
Because of how the sequence played out, I think without specific reads this is a fold on the river.

 

[John A]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $26.35 (105.4 bb)
BB: $68.82 (275.3 bb)
UTG+2: $18.68 (74.7 bb)
MP1: $32.28 (129.1 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
MP3: $44.27 (177.1 bb)
Hero (CO): $35.48 (141.9 bb)
BTN: $27.38 (109.5 bb) VPIP: 28, PFR: 24, 3B: 21, AF: 1.6, Hands: 152

Preflop: Hero is CO with J♣ J♦
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.90, BTN calls $2.65
(villain has 3 bet my last 3 opens in succession, two of which I folded, I read him as just a preflop monkey, post flop he's fairly passive)

Flop: ($10.15) K♥ A♣ 7♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($10.15) J♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $2.91, BTN calls $2.91

River: ($15.97) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $19.57, Hero?

versus an aggro it feels like I have to call as I beat all the 2 pairs. Don't expect to see many 10s.

A call here is fine. Like you said, you shouldn't see many T's. The main combos would be TT and JT, and you have 3 J's. The primary thing is if he understand's that too and hit his Q's on the river, but I'm still calling. The only concern is that you said he's passive post flop. That's the only pause for concern really.

 

[Figaroo2]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $24.29 (97.2 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $25 (100 bb)VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 10, AF: 4.7, Hands: 934
MP2: $25.25 (101 bb)
MP3: $31.73 (126.9 bb)VPIP: 68, PFR: 28, 3B: 25, AF: 1.7, Hands: 57
Hero (CO): $31.36 (125.4 bb)
BTN: $49.74 (199 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♠ Q♠
MP1 raises to $0.75, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.50

Flop: ($4.10) T♠ K♥ 6♠ (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets $1.96, Hero calls $1.96, MP1 raises to $6.75, MP3 calls $4.79, Hero calls $4.79?

Turn: ($24.35) 6♦ (3 players)
MP1 bets $7.50, MP3 folds, Hero?
MP1 has 9.50 behind now.

 

[gustav197poker]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $24.29 (97.2 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $25 (100 bb)VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 10, AF: 4.7, Hands: 934
MP2: $25.25 (101 bb)
MP3: $31.73 (126.9 bb)VPIP: 68, PFR: 28, 3B: 25, AF: 1.7, Hands: 57
Hero (CO): $31.36 (125.4 bb)
BTN: $49.74 (199 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♠ Q♠
MP1 raises to $0.75, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.50

Flop: ($4.10) T♠ K♥ 6♠ (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets $1.96, Hero calls $1.96, MP1 raises to $6.75, MP3 calls $4.79, Hero calls $4.79?

Turn: ($24.35) 6♦ (3 players)
MP1 bets $7.50, MP3 folds, Hero?
MP1 has 9.50 behind now.

We have a good sample of the villain MP1, enough to say that his range is pretty closed here. We're honestly out of shape with our hand to call 3-bet preflop. It is a situation where the 3-bettor seems to have a totally opposite image to the opener. I think that if we are not willing to 4-bet bluff, I am more inclined to fold preflop. However, the call is acceptable when we think that the 3-bettor is very unbalanced and we want to take advantage of our position. Obviously we call when we expect a lot of fold equity from the rest of the players (this has a certain probability, given the characteristics of the villains, opener and 3-bettor).
On the flop I understand your call. We don't expect to get paid worse hands if we raise. And when we know that we are behind a maximum of 2 flush draw combos for the range of V1 (MP1), we are also aware that the MP3 could block all Axs flush draw combos and that means a lot of loss of equity for us.
When MP1 decides to raise, in my opinion he is doing it with all the light and I think that in this situation our participation should end here.
I think you folded on the turn and it seems to me that it was a very correct decision, because sometimes in real time we can take a few seconds to process the information and that implies extending a little more, the duration that we should have in the hand.

 

[John A]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $24.29 (97.2 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $25 (100 bb)VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 10, AF: 4.7, Hands: 934
MP2: $25.25 (101 bb)
MP3: $31.73 (126.9 bb)VPIP: 68, PFR: 28, 3B: 25, AF: 1.7, Hands: 57
Hero (CO): $31.36 (125.4 bb)
BTN: $49.74 (199 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♠ Q♠
MP1 raises to $0.75, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.50

Flop: ($4.10) T♠ K♥ 6♠ (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets $1.96, Hero calls $1.96, MP1 raises to $6.75, MP3 calls $4.79, Hero calls $4.79?

Turn: ($24.35) 6♦ (3 players)
MP1 bets $7.50, MP3 folds, Hero?
MP1 has 9.50 behind now.

I guess Mp3 is an aggro whale, so I see why you called pre. So I think the flop is fine. There's no real reason to push mp3 out by raising. There's not much more you can do than shove turn. I mean if you put him on two pair+, at least one draw and a split pot (maybe some AK combos), then you're fine GIAI.

 

[Figaroo2]

Thanks for both the replies.
In hindsight I think fold pre is probably best, we don't measure up well versus the range of MP1 and if he is strong he can 4 bet knowing the fish will call and with my hand i'm going to have to fold most of the time.
When MP1 just calls pre I don't think AA KK or AK is there, he'd almost certainly reraise them.
This was the issue in this hand for me. MP1 is usually super aggro across a good sample.
He is giving us better than 4-1 on the turn and I think I have well over 30% equity, I did consider gii on the turn but figured I'd just be folding out his many bluffs if I shoved.
Do we not have the correct odds just to call the turn?

 

[gustav197poker]

Thanks for both the replies.
In hindsight I think fold pre is probably best, we don't measure up well versus the range of MP1 and if he is strong he can 4 bet knowing the fish will call and with my hand i'm going to have to fold most of the time.
When MP1 just calls pre I don't think AA KK or AK is there, he'd almost certainly reraise them.
This was the issue in this hand for me. MP1 is usually super aggro across a good sample.
He is giving us better than 4-1 on the turn and I think I have well over 30% equity, I did consider gii on the turn but figured I'd just be folding out his many bluffs if I shoved.
Do we not have the correct odds just to call the turn?

I agree that a super aggressive villain like the one you describe would show his power preflop, when he has very strong hands like AA; KK and AK. However, we must not forget that the hero range is very strong, since the MP1 opener may think that your call in preflop, was with the objective of catching MP3. So MP1 can sometimes show weak, when he has a hand like AKo. Because these types of hands can be included in postflop both in the range of values ​​and in the range of bluffs.
Considering MP1's opening range, this is a scenario where at best we find ourselves splitting the pot and cashing out MP3 dead money. However, it is less likely to find hands like QKo in the aggressive V range. Since these hands, unlike AKo, are behind in equity with respect to all Ax combos, then they will seek an isolation with MP3 at a higher frequency, considering that this player is very unbalanced and could have many marginal hand in his range.
When villain MP1 considers the CO range to be strong, he will call more frequently (preflop) with hands like TT, since he will not be happy to block hero, hands like ATs; KTs; QTs in your bluffs range.

 

[John A]

Thanks for both the replies.
In hindsight I think fold pre is probably best, we don't measure up well versus the range of MP1 and if he is strong he can 4 bet knowing the fish will call and with my hand i'm going to have to fold most of the time.
When MP1 just calls pre I don't think AA KK or AK is there, he'd almost certainly reraise them.
This was the issue in this hand for me. MP1 is usually super aggro across a good sample.
He is giving us better than 4-1 on the turn and I think I have well over 30% equity, I did consider gii on the turn but figured I'd just be folding out his many bluffs if I shoved.
Do we not have the correct odds just to call the turn?

You do of course, but then what are you doing on the river? You folding to a bet?

 

[John A]

Anyone actively playing who is interested in doing some beta testing in exchange for free licenses, please let me know.

 

[Chone2929]

Anyone actively playing who is interested in doing some beta testing in exchange for free licenses, please let me know.

I'm interested in trying out whatever you need tested just let me know

 

[John A]

I'm interested in trying out whatever you need tested just let me know

Ty... I should have been more specific. I meant someone active in the group.