the one time you you decide to call the bluffer, cuz you see his stats, he has a hand, i think their good for nothing
over & out
jph6696

What stat made you think he was bluffing?

And this has never happened to you without using PT?

I mean, you read that stats of that loose player , you see hes a fish , his stats suck .Which means your more inclined to call, even though he could have a monster

I use PT and Poker Office. Not only do I find them incredibly valuable for bucketing opponents, but they also keep my head in the game. What i mean is I have PT set to 25 hands on a new opponent before it will show stats and I use that time to watch opponents and see if I can guess what percentage of time they put $ in the pot, % of time they raise pf, post-flop aggression %, etc. once the stats come up. Philthy is right - sometimes you make a read, with or without PT, and opp has a real hand. It happens. I have a hard time believing though that ROI does not improve with these tools if you are actually using them consistently

If PT is showing the opponent as a loose player, you should be more inclined to call their bets when you have a [good] hand since you will probably have the best hand most of the time. Keep in mind, though, that even loose-cannons will be dealt monster hands, will flop a monster, will have the nuts, etc from time-to-time. This is how they get paid off on their big hands. Just because you ran into a loose fish who had a strong hand shouldnt stop you from using PT. Use PT to play your opponent according what the stats are showing and dont base it on a single result.

I guess where poker is in my blood, its not my cup of tea.I think its gets in the way of one's natural poker instincts , Mayb if I only picked up poker when It began to get very popular , I would be using one too!

I find a lot of people rely on the stats too much and WAY overuse them. But, people who say they are pointless are totally WRONG.

Poker still is popular...

And to be honest, I dont use PT myself. I probably should and I do plan on getting it when I can afford it. So, now I rely on taking player notes and making my decisions based on what I observe. I fail to see how something like PT isnt worth using, especially when it can improve game.

Originally Posted by philthy

Poker still is popular...

And to be honest, I dont use PT myself. I probably should and I do plan on getting it when I can afford it. So, now I rely on taking player notes and making my decisions based on what I observe. I fail to see how something like PT isnt worth using, especially when it can improve game.

I have a feeling u just like to argue lol Joke,But I never said poker ain;t popular anymore, I said when It began to get popular, Remember ? Chris MoneyMaker won, All of a sudden every one thought and still think they can play , Just curious when did you pick up Poker(holdem) I can bet you u never even heard of it before money maker, No doubt you might have played 5 card< i guess i'm half old school, U think the ppl who have ten wsop poker bracelets, need to rely on and odds soft wear> Like I said it good for novice players, and the newbies to poker.I guess

Originally Posted by jph6696

Like I said it good for novice players, and the newbies to poker.I guess

Or if you play 3,4,6,10 tables at a time. Or if you don't remember every single person you've ever played with simply by screen name (no face to remember). Or if you just want every edge that's available to you. Or if you want to be able to replay hands or plug holes in your own game.

PT is a wonderful tool for online play. It's not a crutch for bad players. In fact, most bad players don't use it / never heard of it (one reason they stay bad players). No, you can't use it in a "real game", but then again I can't see you in an online game and knowing your stats is as close to a tell as I can generally get.

Did you actually use PT over a significant number of hands (i.e. not just the short free trial), and then decide it wasn't helpful? And is the reason you stated the only one you have for not using it?

When you buy these programs other people get your info why go into a game with a disadvantage.
I have my info blocked-you can have that request sent to the maker of the program.

Originally Posted by maxima191

When you buy these programs other people get your info why go into a game with a disadvantage.
I have my info blocked-you can have that request sent to the maker of the program.

PT simply stores the info that other people get at a table playing with other people. You can't block these stats, maybe you're thinking of another piece of software.

The point of poker is getting information and making educated guesses as to the range of opponents' hands.

Say there is a theoretical player who literally plays every single hand and bets every single street. We pick up KQ. We are correct to call his preflop bet because we have a better than average hand. Flop then comes K52. We know he bets with any hand so we are correct in calling (let's ignore raising for now ). turn's an 8, rainbow now. We call again. River's a J. We again call because top pair is way better than the RANGE of hands he has. Meaning he would make this move with 23, Q3, etc. So we called him all the way and he flips over AA. Did we make a bad call?

I'm assuming you'd answer that with a yes, but I'd say no. From the information we had available, we had a better hand than his range. Even loose fishy players will pick up AA once in a while. You should still call him down 9 times out of 10. You got unlucky, over the long run if you call someone down that has shit the majority of the time, you win.

But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing?

Originally Posted by jph6696

I have a feeling u just like to argue lol Joke,But I never said poker ain;t popular anymore, I said when It began to get popular, Remember ? Chris MoneyMaker won, All of a sudden every one thought and still think they can play , Just curious when did you pick up Poker(holdem) I can bet you u never even heard of it before money maker, No doubt you might have played 5 card< i guess i'm half old school, U think the ppl who have ten wsop poker bracelets, need to rely on and odds soft wear> Like I said it good for novice players, and the newbies to poker.I guess

Using Pokertracker either to analyse hands or to get stats on opponents is invaluable. Poker is a game about information and there's no such thing as too much.

Even if you dispute it's value in play, surely it's value lies in analysing your play retrospectively and plugging holes?



Unless of course you are just trolling.

Originally Posted by Irexes

Even if you dispute it's value in play, surely it's value lies in analysing your play retrospectively and plugging holes?

I concur.

I play more MTTs than ring games (as I know does Rex). In an MTT, one must be cautious about assigning too much weight to PT stats, since players commonly alter their style of play as the tournament progresses and the blinds rise. Stats based on earlier blind levels may no longer be relevant.

However, PT is an extremely useful tool for later analysis of one`s own play.

Originally Posted by Egon Towst

I concur.

I play more MTTs than ring games (as I know does Rex). In an MTT, one must be cautious about assigning too much weight to PT stats, since players commonly alter their style of play as the tournament progresses and the blinds rise. Stats based on earlier blind levels may no longer be relevant.PT is an extremely useful tool for later analysis of one`s own play.

However,
Yes , I agree with you , Stats dont mean nothing to me online, I say this as a person who grinded the past 6 yrs barley working real jobs, I dont even like to put my own money on sites anymore, that why i try free roll from forums like this one, All I know is , I must be doing something right , cuz ive been at a hell of alot of final tables. Ppl are trying to make ONLINE poker to complicated, in actual fact , Its pretty simple , Patience is the biggest key)its the natural turn of cards, they will come) A Good fold is better than good hand because you have nothing to do with being dealt a royal on the flop, but you have something to do when folding pockets (ex.aces) just get em in there when you are positive you have the best, Keep it simple ppl There Is only 52 cards in a deck, Know your outs!

"But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing? " by ZacVac


The fact the the dudes stats were horrible, and I was playing with him for a good while, I thought that was the point of Stats , to see whos who.Who the fish are! aka. the loose calling bluffing raises every hand type of players.And the tight players as well . It put me in a postion to call something I wouldnt normally call cuz he had worth less stats. Therefore it threw me off my true game! man you Try a make poker out like its rocket science, Trust me dude, its not that complicated .

Originally Posted by jph6696

the one time you you decide to call the bluffer, cuz you see his stats, he has a hand, i think their good for nothing
over & out
jph6696

I should have said fish instead of bluffer

ANOTHER THING, Why do u think they are 100 % legal if they are so great, and they claim to make you rich (cuz they really dont help), they just make money from suckers who buy them, I was using one on my friends account, Thats how I got to use one

Originally Posted by jph6696

"But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing? " by ZacVac


The fact the the dudes stats were horrible, and I was playing with him for a good while, I thought that was the point of Stats , to see whos who.Who the fish are! aka. the loose calling bluffing raises every hand type of players.And the tight players as well . It put me in a postion to call something I wouldnt normally call cuz he had worth less stats. Therefore it threw me off my true game! man you Try a make poker out like its rocket science, Trust me dude, its not that complicated .

Which stats? You didn't answer the question.

Ok.

No need for the caps, quit the trolling and lose the attitude (calling people suckers) if you want responses.

Plenty of people who will be happy to discuss the pros and cons of various software but if you take an confrontational stance you are going to get one back.

Pokertracker allows you to analyse information which is stored on your hard drive as a normal part of the using the sites. Analysis of VPIP, PFR etc allow you to understand both your own game and when analysing other people's games to add this information to your decision making process.

If you don't see value in this then I can't help you.

But I suspect you are just trolling on the subject and sore because it didn't work for you given what sounds like a very limited trial.

Rex, I think you're wrong and OP is obv right.

There's blatantly no value in being able to identify leaks such as but not limited to not opening up in position or as blinds increase, losing money from playing too loosely in early position, being too loose or too tight preflop, seeing too many/too few showdowns, over/undervaluing one pair hands and thus losing money with them, misplaying and losing money with marginal hands, not stealing blinds often enough/stealing too much, not defending blinds often enough/defending too often, not 3-betting often enough/3-betting too often, not continuation betting often enough/c-betting too often, as well as being able to ascertain your winrate at-a-glance.

There's also no value in being able to obtain 'on-the-fly' reads from PAHUD while multitabling, which include all the aforementioned information but for your opponents.

OP is absolutely correct - obviously only a fool would buy PT imo!

Originally Posted by jph6696

the one time you you decide to call the bluffer, cuz you see his stats, he has a hand, i think their good for nothing
over & out
jph6696

I wasn't aware PT had a "bluffing" stat. Many people who use PT don't have a clue how to use the stats until they take the time to learn how to interpret them. Sounds like you are in that boat.

impeccable syntax by OP

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

Rex, I think you're wrong and OP is obv right.

Well, obv.

Originally Posted by Irexes

Ok.

No need for the caps, quit the trolling and lose the attitude (calling people suckers) if you want responses.

do u run this site>??????, I'm entitled my my opinion , Please don't tell me what to do, If I feel they are a waste of time, don't cry about it, and how often did I use caps, Your the one with the attitude , speaking to me like a step child> And ppl seem to response cuz they ain't cry babies, and can take a little harsh truth. THe caps are for attention, i'm not being rude. Get a life man

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

OP is absolutely correct - obviously only a fool would buy PT imo!

THANK YOU , finally someone who gets me

Originally Posted by jph6696

do u run this site>??????,

Well yes. With the other mods.

By all means have an opinion. But check the attitude.

There is absolutely no need for "harsh truth" when civil discussion will do. Plenty of other forums if that's what you are after.

Can't make sense of the rest of your post so can't answer I'm afraid.

If you have a problem with this send me a Private Message. Anything uncivil in the thread will be deleted.

Originally Posted by jph6696

THANK YOU , finally someone who gets me

I think your read may be slightly off on that one

[x] OP needs to invest in Sarcasm Tracker and SarcasmAce HUD

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

[x] OP needs to invest in Sarcasm Tracker and SarcasmAce HUD

SO do u lol

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

[x] OP needs to invest in Sarcasm Tracker and SarcasmAce HUD

I am at work and had to stop myself from laughing so loud people would question what I was doing.

thank you.

I Would like to challenge anyones bankroll in this forum who uses PT, too mine, ANYONE!!..screen shots please

Originally Posted by jph6696

I Would like to challenge anyones bankroll in this forum who uses PT, too mine, ANYONE!!..screen shots please

What is your bankroll?

Cause I looked you up on OPR and found no record of you. And as you said earlier, you play freerolls cause you don't want your money online.

You can look me up on OPR if you like

Originally Posted by Irexes

What is your bankroll?

Cause I looked you up on OPR and found no record of you. And as you said earlier, you play freerolls cause you don't want your money online.

You can look me up on OPR if you like

LOL U must of heard of Dream Poker, its now g nuf, well I Won a dream of my choice, and about 12000, in the months of aug to dec, All from a 20 dollar buy in.

Good for you

Originally Posted by Irexes

Good for you

I really miss that site, Gunf dont offer have as much. What do u think Poker pros would think about the poker tracker? Like the one's who won Ten Bracelets, You know who they are!

Where can I find one of these Sarcasm Trackers, DM?

Originally Posted by jph6696

What do u think Poker pros would think about the poker tracker? Like the one's who won Ten Bracelets, You know who they are!

Im pretty sure the pros would recommend PT. They're always looking for something to give them an edge over the opponents and PT does just that.

Originally Posted by philthy

Im pretty sure the pros would recommend PT. They're always looking for something to give them an edge over the opponents and PT does just that.

Nah ..I would think Doyle or Phil H would probably laugh if someone insulted him and said here! this would up your game.(Poker is in their blood) Look what they did. I feel like I should never posted this lol. I don't wanna make bad friends, Its just I had a online poker account for yrs, and I do really well with it. And I don't need a stats softwear to keep doing what I do best. Like I said .If you feel that you do not have poker in your blood,then rely on some softwear for your personal help.

not all are born poker players
jph6696

you are just being patronising now.

if you don't understand that effective poker relies on exploiting any edge possible, then you're not as good as you think you are at poker. end of.

Good thing I was out to dinner - you male mods are way more tolerant than I am lol.

As I said earlier today, I use both PT and Poker Office depending on which I feel like using that day (and how my computer is behaving). You don't need a screenshot - go to SharkScope and look up my name and results on Full Tilt. I used to play a lot on PokerStars when I got started a few years ago & I wasn't very good back then so those stats won't look as good. I use PT or Poker Office on FullTilt all the time. I would bet almost anything the pros that play online use these tools as well. Online and live are very different games considering the donk factor online

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

you are just being patronising now.

if you don't understand that effective poker relies on exploiting any edge possible, then you're not as good as you think you are at poker. end of.

LOL whatever, I don't think i'm good , I know i'm good , there is a different!
end of.

Originally Posted by philthy

Where can I find one of these Sarcasm Trackers, DM?Im pretty sure the pros would recommend PT. They're always looking for something to give them an edge over the opponents and PT does just that.

Can u say Minus 300 plus dollars at ful tilt, LOLOLOLOLOL I love it, Please don;t tell me you have PT, I doubt you do, so can can u stand up for something that you never even tried??????????????????????????????????????

Originally Posted by zachvac

The point of poker is getting information and making educated guesses as to the range of opponents' hands.

Say there is a theoretical player who literally plays every single hand and bets every single street. We pick up KQ. We are correct to call his preflop bet because we have a better than average hand. Flop then comes K52. We know he bets with any hand so we are correct in calling (let's ignore raising for now ). turn's an 8, rainbow now. We call again. River's a J. We again call because top pair is way better than the RANGE of hands he has. Meaning he would make this move with 23, Q3, etc. So we called him all the way and he flips over AA. Did we make a bad call?

I'm assuming you'd answer that with a yes, but I'd say no. From the information we had available, we had a better hand than his range. Even loose fishy players will pick up AA once in a while. You should still call him down 9 times out of 10. You got unlucky, over the long run if you call someone down that has shit the majority of the time, you win.

But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing?

good advice man, why are you negative in both of your accounts

Originally Posted by jph6696

I know i'm good

That's how I know you're not that good. I have met 0 good players who brag that they're good. I've had people saying they'll clean me out. If you're good you don't need to brag to everyone, you're making money right? And if you're not and just trying to get people to worship you, ain't gonna work here.

Originally Posted by jph6696

good advice man, why are you negative in both of your accounts

When was I negative? btw still waiting on the stats that showed he was bluffing. I don't think you knew how to use the stats. And even if you did, a short term read (which simply gives you a better range, not a specific hand) can not prove whether it works either way.

My read on the OP is that he isn't old enough to step foot in a casino. Don't worry little buddy, someday people will like you. Just not today.

Errrrrr....super dumb/super newbie question...

How do u look up stats on other players (on PS)?

...like, how does jph6696 know whether a player is in the + or -?