Pocket Dueces

[diabloblanco]

Questions on how to play any pocket pair ar so vague and difficult to answer. Any answer given will be relative with numerous variables.
What size is your chipstack?
|What is your table position?
|What type of game are you playing?
How many people are in the pot?
Are you confident in your read on the opponent(s)?
All the general "How do you play XX?" questions are hard to answer, and you are going to get very general vanilla responses. Playing any hand no matter what it is is always subject to change due to mitigating factors like the ones I listed above. The generic cookie cutter response to this is to limp with ducks and try to see a flop for the cost of the big blind. If someone comes over the top of you, fold. If you don't improve on the flop and make your set, fold. That advice is solid, but there will often be situations where the hand can be played very differently and win you a pot. The only real concrete rule in Holdem is that there are no real concrete rules. Lots of guidelines, lots of suggestions, but very few if any steadfast rules. The situation should always dictate the play.

 

[Dice888]

call preflop , if any raises exists fold . simple as that

 

[diabloblanco]

No, sadly its not always as "simple as that." See my above post for reference. I know for a fact that anyone here that has ever played more than a few thousand hands live, and in person, has called a raise or two, or even made a raise themselves with deuces. You have to have enough gamble in you to make this play when you know its the right one to make. If you aren't good enough to KNOW its the right one to make, well, that's a different story.

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

Hard to Play because its a garbage hand

2,2 is absolute garbage from any position. Toss them in the muck, let others gamble with that garbage. Unless you like gambling.

Bill

 

[MicheleW]

Its amazing so many people say they limp in the 2's and/or anything lower than 10's. Why is it then so many other people call all-in with them! LOL I especially see lots of people call all-in with pp 7's (Kathy Liebert's favorite hand).

Like you all, I either fold them or limp in if I can ... then fold if I don't get another 2 in the flop.

 

[diabloblanco]

If you have the ability to successfully play any pocket pair, why muck them Bill? Unconditionally throwing away a pair regardless of table position is poor play.

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

(My humble opinion)
Good question here is the logic.

For your pair to improve to trips on the flop is approx 5 to 1.
Even "limping in", you need at least 3 other players, plus the blinds to come along with you. Drawing hands go up in value in these situations. Heck, even pocket Aces have a tougher time against 3+ opponents.

Now, against 5 players, you have to view you pocket pair as requiring improvement. Deuces are vulnerable to every single card in the deck that flops, (except another 2). In other words it is not a "made" hand.

When you also consider the possible flops that can counterfeit your hand, even when improving to a set, it is just a long term losing play.

*caveat, if your in a tournament, and in trouble, a made pair is worth taking an all in shot with.

But playing pocket Deuces is gambling, and gambling is for the other guy.
Throw them away and wait for a bigger edge, and then punish your opponents for limping with pocket deuces.

Bill

BTW if your gonna play them raise pre flop. There is marginal equity in pocket deuces if representing them as pocket aces. If you perceive deuces as a made hand. They will stand up better heads up. Just like Aces.

These are just my thoughts, I enjoy this board, and hope to participate often.

 

[diabloblanco]

I agree with much of what you said, my only problem or should I say, difference of opinion, with your other post was it read to me like you were telling others to muck pocket ducks in all scenarios in any position.

As far as I can tell, you are up on your stuff for sure. Your posts are well thought out and informative. I don't condone playing deuces like a wild-man. What I did say, was that there are certain situations where they can be beneficial.

The odds of flopping an improved hand are about 8 to 1, why not bring them in and see what happens? Like you said, its a gamble, but one sometimes worth taking.

If I had to put a number on it, I would say I muck pocket deuces 3 out of 10 times, limp with them about 5 out of 10 and get out of the way if I don't improve, and raise with them somewhere between 1 and 2 out of 10 hands. With the raise, I am basically on a bluff with some nice chances of improvement, representing an overpair. I will usually commit to this raising pattern for the turn as well in an attempt to take down the pot. Again I will stress, I do this rarely, and only when I am running the table and have good reads on my oponents etc. I think we just play two different styles, to each his own.

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

Now, we are getting to the crux of the issue! Mixing it up, and post flop play.
I agree, and I actually concede. Your last post describes HIGHLY fine tuned strategy, and advanced play. Play in which the narrowest edge must be maximized to beat other highly skilled opponents.

It is my humble opinion that a very high percentage of players will lose mad stacks with this, and would be better off mucking them.
Bill
I respect your post and opinions. My guess is that if I walked into a room and saw you playing, I'd choose a different table if possible.

 

[diabloblanco]

Actually you and I would most probably have a good time at a 9 or 10 handed table together. As long as I was to your left, hahaha.

 

[hayden1009]

I believe unless its already a short handed table i just throw dueces away .....way too many hands can beat it pre and post flop and if you truly plan on making the final table you must always be aware of how many bets you are wasting ....if you waste a bet in low pairs or mid level connectors say 20 times in a 3 hour tounry and its crunch time you have lost maybe anouther circuit of betting by wasting blinds .....never ever throw in a dumb bet

 

[diabloblanco]

If you sincerily plan on making it deep in a tournament, somewhere in the middle you have to go on a chip building spree. To do this requires gamble and some luck. In feilds of 500 to 2000 or more people (wsop events) anyone who has one a bracelet will tell you that you have to gamble during the middle and in some cases portions of the late levels on draws and other marginal hands, and be lucky to the point of making some of them stick. Playing pocket 2's can be considered a legitimate way to do this.

Can they be beaten by a ton of hands? Of course, noone is saying they're a monster, but if you can get lucky and flop a set, you will in most cases have the best hand with two more streets to go which give you even more chances at 4 of a kind or deuces full. Its a hand that can win you money if you are confident enough in your reads and your play to call, bet out, or semi-bluff with them.

 

[Bralynn]

Dueces never loses.

 

[biggamer86]

10 handed your basically going to toss your pocket pairs even queens, almost always with a full table someone will have that ace or the king especially early on you have to watch out because about 6 people will call a huge raise and those queens or jacks will get you in huge trouble, and like previous people said alot of guys will call with pocket pairs till the last card the 9 10 suited is a stronger hand then the jack jack in my opinion in a 6-10 handed game 5 and less the jack jack is more important as for 2s you just call the bb like everyone said and hope for the best dont call the raise, basically do any pocket pair like that except aces or kings. I've seen so many people go out on queens and jacks it isnt even funny well it is but still. Kind of wonder what there thinking when the flop comes like ace 4 queen and they have those pocket jacks.