Playing cash limit

[Ronaldadio]

Hi guys.

I`ve just started playing cash limit games (up to $0.50/1.00 limit) on Titan and am finding the normal frustrations of being delt AA, KK, raising then someone chasing me to the bitter end. The problem I find is its not one that chases but a pack of them they r like dogs!!!

In this scenario u obviously stand more chance of being busted by 2 or 3 rather than head to head.

Normally when I play no limit, I play the normal tight aggressive game.

Should I start to play more hands and if I miss the flop fold? I tried this and it did not work, although I did not give this a long period of time.

An example is if u r delt KK it seems ppl with an Ax in their hand will chase. So if at any time an A hits u r worried.

Be interested in your thoughs.

P.S. Should I just stick to no limit?

Ronaldadio

 

[F Paulsson]

No, you should not play more hands. The fact that you're chased down to the river and sucked out on is a mirage. How often do you bet your aces three streets in a row and your opponent folds on the river? Or already on the turn? As players, we tend to forget these times, and remember only the other 15% of the time that someone managed to hit their two pair on the last card.

I don't have PokerTracker on this computer (on a businesstrip) so I can't tell you how big a sample I have exactly, but it's a few hundred times I've been dealt AA in limit hold 'em, and I win around 85% of the time with them.

Having said that, it's important to understand that it's beneficial to you if you get chasers - you gain more than you lose. There is a weird sentiment (that I think Sklansky et al is implicitly responsible for) that AA and KK don't like multiway pots. This is not true. What's true is that they rarely win big pots, but they are, by a large margin, big favourites before the flop, and should be played as aggressively as you can before the flop is dealt.

"Raising to force people out" of the pot preflop, is not why AA and KK should be raised in limit. You raise for value, because you're so likely to win the pot that every bet you can fool others into putting in at that point translates directly to profit for you.

87s, 44, and other "speculative" hands play better in multiway pots than AA and KK do, but not because they're a favourite to win (and this is where Sklansky may have been guilty of fooling people slightly) but because a hand like 87s is a "fit or fold" hand, and when the flop hits you, you will most often know how to extract the most value from it. This is not the case with AA and KK where you are more likely to make mistakes after the flop (a "mistake" is here defined as putting in money with the worst of it, or failing to raise when you're ahead). It's hard to 3-bet the turn with AA when you've been checkraised when the board pairs. Yet, those times that you're still ahead, you're then failling to extract the maximum value if you don't. On the other hand, when you're behind, you're costing yourself yet another bet.

Not so with a flopped set, for instance. You're still extremely convinced (or should be) that you're ahead, that you're happy to reraise, and can therefore play "perfectly" (mistake-free), and so you extract the most your hand can achieve. Conversely, you can safely fold if the flop misses you (and again, play "perfectly").

This is why some hands "prefer" multiway pots: They're easy to play. This is not the case with large pocket pairs, the exception being when you flop a set, of course.

Hope that made some sense. Don't play more hands, that's usually a disaster in limit. You don't have the implied odds for playing speculative hands, especially not for a raise. Conversely, you should make sure to raise your strong hands to deny others the implied odds that they need to play THEIR crappy hands.

Good luck.

/FP

 

[Ronaldadio]

The problem I am finding is if I get middle or bottom pair on the flop. If u raise and get called u do not have an idea of where u stand.

 

[twizzybop]

Renaldo, here is what I do on Titan. I bet more pre-flop.. the normal 3x-4x BB raise is called with what you just said by more people. You need to find a raise where you get the 1-2 callers and/or even take it down pre-flop.

I did a 10X BB raise once with QQ's at CO postion and SB called me with A4 suited to hit his ace on the flop. This is exactly what I wanted him to do but I have to remember that if he calls my continuation bet, I may be beat by his luck call.

 

[Effexor]

Renaldo, here is what I do on Titan. I bet more pre-flop.. the normal 3x-4x BB raise is called with what you just said by more people. You need to find a raise where you get the 1-2 callers and/or even take it down pre-flop.

I did a 10X BB raise once with QQ's at CO postion and SB called me with A4 suited to hit his ace on the flop. This is exactly what I wanted him to do but I have to remember that if he calls my continuation bet, I may be beat by his luck call.

He's talking about a limit game here.

 

[twizzybop]

OOps.. I don't do that well at limit.. my mistake

 

[F Paulsson]

The problem I am finding is if I get middle or bottom pair on the flop. If u raise and get called u do not have an idea of where u stand.

The problem is a bit too generic to give a good answer. If you can find some examples of where you're in trouble, post them in the hand analysis forum.