Open raise sizings at 2nl?

[GSPoker]

Hi guys,

I’m currently playing 6-Max 2NL regular tables on GG and I’m curious about open raise sizings.

From the courses and books I have read which include (Blackrains CTM, BPC:No BS 6-Max and Charlie Carrels Masterclass) they all suggest different sizings:

3x BB
2.5x BB

And BPC recommend 4x from UTG, 3.5x MP, 3x CO etc.

I’m curious as to why these 3 people suggest different sizings?

I asked Charlie on stream why he uses 2.5x once and he said “it’s just better, trust me”, but whyyyy?

I watch other streamers play 2nl, and it’s a really mixed bag. Most do 2.5x, others 3x, I’ve seen one guy use 3.5x for premium hands only regardless of position and he limps small pocket pairs

I’ve always used 3x from every position, I’m a break even player at the micros and I’m wondering how open raises impact my win rate.

Is it optimal to use a bigger sizing from EP?

Does rake come into it?

Thanks

 

[braun_kan]

There are many factors that go into RFI size, but suffice to say that at 2NL you will be fine opening 2.5x or 3x from all positions with little difference in EV. And it helps to have a static and simplified RFI strategy when you're at 2NL and learning the fundamentals.

Some important differences that your RFI size make are: 1) How much you stand to lose when you must fold to a 3-bet and 2) The amount of money in the pot when you get to the flop in a single raise pot or 3-bet pot.

At high stakes you will see players alter their RFI size based on position for slight gains in EV. I.e. it is optimal to open smaller from the early positions (like 2.2bb) since there are more players behind who can 3-bet you and you want to lose less on average when you have to fold. Early positions will also have to play post flop from OOP frequently so its advantageous for the pot to be smaller when you are at a disadvantage. Another common adjustment is to raise slightly bigger from the SB to give the BB worse odds to call and increase your chance of stealing the blind.

You can also make dynamic RFI sizing exploits depending on the table you're at. I.e. if you have an aggressive 3-bettor to your left then you can open tighter and smaller to reduce your losses when he 3-bets. With fish at the table (especially in the blinds) you can open bigger with your strong hands expecting them to overcall and put you in a great position on the flop with a bloated pot and position on a weaker player.

 

[GSPoker]

There are many factors that go into RFI size, but suffice to say that at 2NL you will be fine opening 2.5x or 3x from all positions with little difference in EV. And it helps to have a static and simplified RFI strategy when you're at 2NL and learning the fundamentals.

Some important differences that your RFI size make are: 1) How much you stand to lose when you must fold to a 3-bet and 2) The amount of money in the pot when you get to the flop in a single raise pot or 3-bet pot.

At high stakes you will see players alter their RFI size based on position for slight gains in EV. I.e. it is optimal to open smaller from the early positions (like 2.2bb) since there are more players behind who can 3-bet you and you want to lose less on average when you have to fold. Early positions will also have to play post flop from OOP frequently so its advantageous for the pot to be smaller when you are at a disadvantage. Another common adjustment is to raise slightly bigger from the SB to give the BB worse odds to call and increase your chance of stealing the blind.

You can also make dynamic RFI sizing exploits depending on the table you're at. I.e. if you have an aggressive 3-bettor to your left then you can open tighter and smaller to reduce your losses when he 3-bets. With fish at the table (especially in the blinds) you can open bigger with your strong hands expecting them to overcall and put you in a great position on the flop with a bloated pot and position on a weaker player.

Wow, this is extremely helpful! Thank you

 

[eetenor]

Hi guys,

I’m currently playing 6-Max 2NL regular tables on GG and I’m curious about open raise sizings.

From the courses and books I have read which include (Blackrains CTM, BPC:No BS 6-Max and Charlie Carrels Masterclass) they all suggest different sizings:

3x BB
2.5x BB

And BPC recommend 4x from UTG, 3.5x MP, 3x CO etc.

I’m curious as to why these 3 people suggest different sizings?

I asked Charlie on stream why he uses 2.5x once and he said “it’s just better, trust me”, but whyyyy?

I watch other streamers play 2nl, and it’s a really mixed bag. Most do 2.5x, others 3x, I’ve seen one guy use 3.5x for premium hands only regardless of position and he limps small pocket pairs

I’ve always used 3x from every position, I’m a break even player at the micros and I’m wondering how open raises impact my win rate.

Is it optimal to use a bigger sizing from EP?

Does rake come into it?

Thanks

Thank you for posting.

If you are using 3x opens from all POS it is not the preflop sizing that is the issue.
AT 2nl we are playing exploit poker not GTO which means the key to ROI is taking advantage of errors our V make post flop. Preflop our V call too often so 3bb is fine for our entire POS ranges. It also makes stacking a V easier if we build the pot early.


That means we need to be thinking about post flop bet sizing to increase our ROI in these games.

A simple key in 2NL is think I do not care if I win the blinds I want stacks and those I get post flop.

What does this mean? I would suggest you focus on improving post flop play specifically vs your player type.

How do we study for exploit poker?

Create a data list of player pool tendencies

1 Villains per flop?
2 passive post flop?
3 bet sizing tells?
4 Inelastic ranges? What that means is you can bet 2x pot turn and they will still try to hit their draw
5 etc

By first knowing your V errors we can then exploit that.

Hope this helps

 

[xaj9x]

Hey It all depends on who your opponent is, whether he understands the size of your bets, if he is an amateur, he will not understand at least 2.5 at least 3.5 [emoji3]

 

[Recreationalplayer]

I use 3x at lower limit games due to rake effect. Play tight range with 3x RFI size. You can use 2.5x from Button if you like playing wide ranges in position.

 

[padman400]

Just min raise from all positions and 2.5 from button. I play a short stack and it seems ok for me. I get three bet a lot haha so it cheaper when I have to fold

 

[Oranaro]

I think that there is a link to your range too. For mtts you will bet 2.2 to 2.5 with wide ranges, and 2.5 to 3.5 when you play very tight. In cash games it's not that important, as you can recash anytime you want, but instinctivly, you'll find people doing it.
I think the biggest mistake would be to change your betsize according your hand, and bet big in early position. Well the first tells when you have premium hands, and the second, will work for not that long, until a reg sees that in fact it's preferable to call you from the btn pretty everytime, as he will be able to pressure you with big pots.

 

[GSPoker]

Thank you for posting.

If you are using 3x opens from all POS it is not the preflop sizing that is the issue.
AT 2nl we are playing exploit poker not GTO which means the key to ROI is taking advantage of errors our V make post flop. Preflop our V call too often so 3bb is fine for our entire POS ranges. It also makes stacking a V easier if we build the pot early.


That means we need to be thinking about post flop bet sizing to increase our ROI in these games.

A simple key in 2NL is think I do not care if I win the blinds I want stacks and those I get post flop.

What does this mean? I would suggest you focus on improving post flop play specifically vs your player type.

How do we study for exploit poker?

Create a data list of player pool tendencies

1 Villains per flop?
2 passive post flop?
3 bet sizing tells?
4 Inelastic ranges? What that means is you can bet 2x pot turn and they will still try to hit their draw
5 etc

By first knowing your V errors we can then exploit that.

Hope this helps

Amazing, thank you!!

 

[GSPoker]

I think that there is a link to your range too. For mtts you will bet 2.2 to 2.5 with wide ranges, and 2.5 to 3.5 when you play very tight. In cash games it's not that important, as you can recash anytime you want, but instinctivly, you'll find people doing it.
I think the biggest mistake would be to change your betsize according your hand, and bet big in early position. Well the first tells when you have premium hands, and the second, will work for not that long, until a reg sees that in fact it's preferable to call you from the btn pretty everytime, as he will be able to pressure you with big pots.

Makes perfect sense, thank you!

 

[magnus369]

I think it's outdated to use progressive raises according to position, starting more expensive from early position, moving to being cheaper from late position like the button, and very expensive from small vs big.

And I think that varying the raise according to the strength of the hand is an extremely low EV play in the long run, while in the short term you seem to get more chips from that whale fish, you are also preventing the regulars from getting involved with you and you win their money, a part of the strategy and optimizing the odds for the villain to call almost even, but losing

I think that up to NL10, I think it's pretty standard to use 2.5x to 3x, if you have a lot of volume, I think it's prudent to stay at 2.5x.

It is worth remembering that everything said here is based on my opinion only.

 

[sincos]

At the limit nl2 I made an open raise of 3bb, and at the limit nl10 I choose 2bb, because opponents often make 3bet

 

[Gritz18]

Hi guys,

I’m currently playing 6-Max 2NL regular tables on GG and I’m curious about open raise sizings.

From the courses and books I have read which include (Blackrains CTM, BPC:No BS 6-Max and Charlie Carrels Masterclass) they all suggest different sizings:

3x BB
2.5x BB

And BPC recommend 4x from UTG, 3.5x MP, 3x CO etc.

I’m curious as to why these 3 people suggest different sizings?

I asked Charlie on stream why he uses 2.5x once and he said “it’s just better, trust me”, but whyyyy?

I watch other streamers play 2nl, and it’s a really mixed bag. Most do 2.5x, others 3x, I’ve seen one guy use 3.5x for premium hands only regardless of position and he limps small pocket pairs

I’ve always used 3x from every position, I’m a break even player at the micros and I’m wondering how open raises impact my win rate.

Is it optimal to use a bigger sizing from EP?

Does rake come into it?

Thanks

When you play 2nl no matter the room, you will usually find a very weak field and at these levels the tendency is for them to pay with everything, and when you usually open 3x regardless of position, you grow the pot a lot, it's a big pot and a lot appetizing, and the villain will pay with anything and won't let go. What I learned is that at the beginning of a tournament, up to the 50/100 blind, open up to 2.5x from any position. Use 3x only SB against BB. And in the rest of the tournament you only use 2x until the end. In situations where you are deep stacked, you can even raise higher, to punish limps and put pressure on the table. It's just my opinion and what I learned, if it's right I don't know. Good luck to everyone at the tables.

 

[scubed]

I’m curious as to why these 3 people suggest different sizings?

I adjust my sizing to what I want to accomplish and who my opponents are. One of my favorite sizings is a simple RFI 2x from the Button or Cutoff when I know that I have really tight players to act behind.

Is it optimal to use a bigger sizing from EP?

Lose more when you are beat. Win more when you have the nuts. If you get 3-bet, do you want to have to call a bigger sizing?

Does rake come into it?

Don't have good information here, but I would guess yes.