So I'm particularly interested in the scenario where we are calling OOP pre, we have the effective nuts by the river or earlier and villain cbets both the flop and the turn. What is the best way to get max value in this scenario?

On the one hand we can check hoping to re-raise but risk villain checking. On the other hand we can lead but risk villain catching onto what's going on and either folding something he was over valuing or was willing to triple barrel bluff with.

What is your thought process in these positions?

Originally Posted by BustedKing

So I'm particularly interested in the scenario where we are calling OOP pre, we have the effective nuts by the river or earlier and villain cbets both the flop and the turn. What is the best way to get max value in this scenario?

On the one hand we can check hoping to re-raise but risk villain checking. On the other hand we can lead but risk villain catching onto what's going on and either folding something he was over valuing or was willing to triple barrel bluff with.

What is your thought process in these positions?

When playing OOP you want to play aggresively yourself. Therefore raising strong hands is important. That being sad, in spots were you have the "absolute" nuts you want to let your opponent catch up, hoping he catches a strong enough hand to pay you off big. Also you want to adjust to villains tendencys. So vs aggressive guys, let them bet, then raise them on later streets.

You want to determine how the avarege player plays at your stakes. Take notes and use huds/ handreviews for that.

Originally Posted by LevySystem

So vs aggressive guys, let them bet, then raise them on later streets.

Sure but my question is about the river, you've checked the flop and the turn and allowed them to bet into you but checking the turn potentially looses you value by letting them check. Leading also potentially loses value by signalling that you like your hand despite their aggression and allowing them to get away.

What I'm asking is what factors determine when you should lead on the river and when you should check.

Originally Posted by BustedKing

Sure but my question is about the river, you've checked the flop and the turn and allowed them to bet into you but checking the turn potentially looses you value by letting them check. Leading also potentially loses value by signalling that you like your hand despite their aggression and allowing them to get away.

What I'm asking is what factors determine when you should lead on the river and when you should check.

Depends on villains skill, tendencies, his range and how he perceives your range. Like people play hands in quite specific ways according to their skill. Therfore, especially at lower stakes they are easy to read.

Generally I would take the lead on the turn if playing someone aggresive because he is likely to barrel both streets. So when taking the lead we can grow the pot and set up for a cbet OTR which makes it less awkward.

If you lead earlier vs an aggressive villain aren't you likely to lose even more value? If he's aggressive he's probably betting his draws and maybe some marginal hands; if we lead aren't we losing a lot of value by pushing him off those hands?

To me it would make more sense to lead early vs passive villains on wet boards since they're less likely to bet draws and more likely to check/call marginal hands.

Originally Posted by BustedKing

If you lead earlier vs an aggressive villain aren't you likely to lose even more value? If he's aggressive he's probably betting his draws and maybe some marginal hands; if we lead aren't we losing a lot of value by pushing him off those hands?

To me it would make more sense to lead early vs passive villains on wet boards since they're less likely to bet draws and more likely to check/call marginal hands.

Not necessarily. Depends if he is an idiot or understands what's happening. Also the SPR is important here. If we are playing SRPs or deep in 3b/4b pots we are likely to have to raise villain at some point in the hand in order to get our stacks in by the river, If we/ villain aren't overbetting. As said it depends. There is no 1 aggresive player. People play in different Facettes in different spots.