OMG! Stymied outta the gate!

[Gorblimey]

$2-5 NLH full table. Full table Hero in HJ raises two middle limpers to $30 with 88; only gets called by SB. Flop comes . SB checks and Hero CBs. Turn is a blank, checked around. River is a 7 and SB checks. Hero half pots it and gets check raised to $435(all in). Could this be a bluff check raise? Hmm...not much in the way of villainology here.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Not sure a truly blank turn exists given our hand and this board but why check the turn in position when our hand is both strong and vulnerable? If we bet turn we can check back some rivers or eval if he leads. As played it's a tough spot as there are some missed draws but a few of them got there. Our hand is under-repped which could change the action too. V shouldn't expect an over pair to check turn in position so he could be blasting away with 7x, 6x, or 5x and whatever missed draws he has. There are conflicting population tendencies here. Once we check turn if V gets there he should be much more likely to bet small on the river with all his value rather than check again and risk us checking back. I assume since we don't have reads on him, he also doesn't have reads on us. Most players also don't jam over top of a river bet without a hand. So much info missing though. $75 in the pot on the flop. How much did you CB? If we assume $35 ish that's about $150 in the pot on the turn and river and we bet about $75 and get jammed on. odds aren't great on a call. V could indeed be bluffing here but I think we have to let it go the first time around and get better reads because we don't know how often he's bluffing. Also the turn almost has to be either a card that completes a straight, a card that pairs the board, or an over card. So I'm not sure how it's a complete blank. Vs line doesn't make much sense so I can understand if you looked him up here to bluff catch. But stacking off here with a weaker 1 pair hand on a board that has plenty of straights and two pair or sets or maybe even a larger pair and with no reads seems fairly bad.

 

[gustav197poker]

The eights pocket is quite unprotected in this texture. We note that the SB limper range could include some low pairs, which here became sets. Without readings about the villain I think this is too risky a sequence and this line is not recommended for the hero as you are blocking the importants river bluffs like 7-8 and 8-9.
From now on I will make assumptions about the hand, because some data is missing and therefore I may be very wrong.
I suppose you know that this villain has a limper limited rank in the blind and is to all the offs hight scales combinations: AKo; AQo; AJo; QKo; KJo. So, you think V was able to bluff into the river and decided to call and catch it. I also suppose you made a large size cbet and therefore you got involved with this hand.
Regarding the turn, I suppose you mean a club street but if it is a total brick it should impact proportionally in both ranges and in this texture it could be a Tc, since any other is bad for us.
Greetings.

 

[Gorblimey]

My CB was one third the pot and I thought he might try a river bluff if I check the turn but he had a set on the flop and I paid of on fifth street. I read the V as a little loose that's why I was willing to him action. I finished the session dead even after 4 hours.

 

[UkoChebuko]

Define "blank"...653 and turn is blank..I will fold there. Can be a bluff, no logic at all, but I can't find many hands in his range. Suitable for bluff. He must turn something to bluff, but this is very rare.

 

[Gorblimey]

Turn was a 7 and the river a 2. Stacks were $1400 and $450.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

My CB was one third the pot and I thought he might try a river bluff if I check the turn but he had a set on the flop and I paid of on fifth street. I read the V as a little loose that's why I was willing to him action. I finished the session dead even after 4 hours.

Turn was a 7 and the river a 2. Stacks were $1400 and $450.

Neither a 2 or a 7 is a blank. Both cards bring in a one card straight with 4x and the 7 brings in two pair on occasion. We should not be trying to play a big pot with a medium overpair when there are possible sets, two pair, and one card straights on the board. V was tricky to check his set but we don't have to fall into this trap. With this run out I'm probably only going for one street of value since V should know we almost never have 4x here when we ISO this large pre. We COULD have 98s but that's probably rare and a super thin value range. This is not a 3 bet pot, why are we c-betting so small? I think the cbet needs to be larger than 1/3 on a board that's connected given we have a vulnerable hand. I would have probably gone 2/3 on the flop and checked twice with that run out. If I do go for thin value on the river and get raised I'm folding for that sizing. Since we only bet 1/3 on the flop that means the river jam is even larger compared to the pot. What bluffs were you expecting him to show up with? There are just too many hands that beat us here. In the OP you say the river was the 7 but in the other post you say the turn was the 7. If the 7 is on the turn it give us the open ender which is definitely not a blank.

 

[blueskies]

It happens. I just lost everything at a table where none of the other people fold. Bingo poker.

Hit top pair with KQ and went all in. EVERYONE called with nothing. The guy with A5 turned an ace and won. Should have quadrupled up instead lost. It is best not to play at tables like that. Find tables with one or two idiots max.

 

[Igor Popadyk]

it’s not like a bluff, but why such a bet on the river, I’m for the pass, with what hands and range does he have a bluff? What kind of opponent is he? At the low limit, completely repulsed players are bluffing

 

[Delfino]

This is why one should never bet a medium hand on river. You will be called only by better hands and you can also get check-raised. Bet only great hands for maximum extractions and bluffs where it's obvious you can't win at the showdown.

 

[Gorblimey]

This is why one should never bet a medium hand on river. You will be called only by better hands and you can also get check-raised. Bet only great hands for maximum extractions and bluffs where it's obvious you can't win at the showdown.

OK, I must remember that!:aetsch: