Nut flush draw flop raised, what to do?

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miku

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Preflop has been 3-bet by me, I am OOP with Ad 3d against one villain.

Flop comes 9d 6s Jd

I decide to donk bet almost a pot (give me some feedback about this :D) well, I guess this is a semibluff representing some kind of overpair or AKs

Villain shoves and I get +EV call with my nut flush draw if I include As as outs too, without aces I get pot odds that i have to have 38% equity and I only get 35% with my nut flush draw.

Is it a call. I know villain has a lot of As in his range and also AA and a pair of jacks. I have the Ad so only flushdraw type of hand possible could be KdQd

So apparently I can not include As to my outs.

My question is that do I call here and was my bet oversized and bad play. Also if I missed something please let me know.

Thanks
 
Hujiko

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Should be in another thread. But here we go.

First of all it is not a donk bet it is a continuation bet as your the preflop aggressor (you 3 betted).

Your cBet is to big a normal size is about 2/3 pot what hands will fold against an overbet that will not fold against 2/3 pot bet? Dont think that an overbet generates enough extra folds.

As to call given the pot odds and if you can count your A for some part as an out also is hard to say without any further information. What was the villains position and what is your position? E.g. if it was SB vs BB then he could have a worse hand then yours e.g. QTs and make this play.
 
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Should be in another thread. But here we go.

First of all it is not a donk bet it is a continuation bet as your the preflop aggressor (you 3 betted).

Your cBet is to big a normal size is about 2/3 pot what hands will fold against an overbet that will not fold against 2/3 pot bet? Dont think that an overbet generates enough extra folds.

As to call given the pot odds and if you can count your A for some part as an out also is hard to say without any further information. What was the villains position and what is your position? E.g. if it was SB vs BB then he could have a worse hand then yours e.g. QTs and make this play.
Villain was utg, I was BB. I didn't see this player playing many hands but he bought in with approx. 40BB and doubled with a speculative call so I thought he is not a good player. Of course it was only one hand but still. So when the action folded to me I decided to raise for value. Now, I know I am OOP and that my ace doesn't have a good kicker but is this raise from the blind standard against a wide range of hands?

Or is it better just to call

I called and he showed QJo
 
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Your flop sizing was too big, but if you think your opp is a bad player, you can do it, you don't need to care much 'bout sizings against bad players, they don't understand anything anyway. Against good player, it would be a bad bet-sizing, betting that much won't give you extra folds or extra value. That case, when he had only 40bb, maybe you could even shove on that flop after his raise and it would be +EV (cause aces are probly your outs too). Also, he could fold so you would have fold-equity as well.
 
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miku

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Your flop sizing was too big, but if you think your opp is a bad player, you can do it, you don't need to care much 'bout sizings against bad players, they don't understand anything anyway. Against good player, it would be a bad bet-sizing, betting that much won't give you extra folds or extra value. That case, when he had only 40bb, maybe you could even shove on that flop after his raise and it would be +EV (cause aces are probly your outs too). Also, he could fold so you would have fold-equity as well.
Thanks for the answer, to be clear, he doubled his 40BB stack so 80BB [emoji123]
 
TonyTwoCheeks

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A rule of thumb that I agree with is to take the same line that you would if your hand was not suited. So if you would normally bet A3o in this situation then bet A3dd. This seems like a good situation to check-call. I am interested in the size of the 3-bet and how the hand turned out for you.
 
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sheltowee420

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The first thing I think of when it comes to hitting the flush draw, is that I hit-it once every other blue moon. So, I have adopted the approach of flop-it or slop-it. I do not spend chips chasing this hand. I try to keep the pot small with a check, min-bet, or a fold to the raise.
 
playinggameswithu

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I would say to not get carried away with these draws...since they in objective reality are mediocre draws. Kind of like no edge coin flips. They look subjectively good because it is hold'em but when you really think about it they are eh draws.
 
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Unashamed88

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Honestly what I get out of this is that your math skills are good and it's time to start developing your bet sizing and leveling and fold equity and pot building.

What were you trying to represent with that oversize bet on the flop? Remember you 3bet pre so you limited your range to your villain. Especially since you guys have limited play time together.
 
Joe

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I'm yet to study cash game strat (next port of call) so am hesitant to give ill founded advice but am interested as to how the hand played out...

My guess is that as this topic is here neither ace not diamond hit turn or river and so you're analysing if you could have played it any better pre and on the flop...
 
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miku

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I'm yet to study cash game strat (next port of call) so am hesitant to give ill founded advice but am interested as to how the hand played out...

My guess is that as this topic is here neither ace not diamond hit turn or river and so you're analysing if you could have played it any better pre and on the flop...
Yeah, you are right. I lost and he showed QJo as a winning hand

Honestly what I get out of this is that your math skills are good and it's time to start developing your bet sizing and leveling and fold equity and pot building.

What were you trying to represent with that oversize bet on the flop? Remember you 3bet pre so you limited your range to your villain. Especially since you guys have limited play time together.
Well, honestly I didn't know what I was doing when betting that much. I think the thought process was like this: Because I thought him/her to be pretty fishy opponent I really wanted to scare the hell out of him/her. I know that maybe he could have folded a big portion of his range to my 2/3 c-bet there but if the opponent is too "enthusiast" and wants to see the turn I figured that maybe an overbet could wake the player up after a 3-bet(or maybe not, I can not play against fish anyways)

Well I mean what can he have on his range that he doesn't fold except AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 99 (maybe 66) and KdQd. I block every suited Ax of diamonds and only AJo ir AJs is reasonable combination including ace?(correct me if im wrong) well maybe this is just a range for people that really think the game and cards' strength.

Yeah the 2/3 bet would be better, I have to think about my betting a lot, thank you for your comment!
 
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Chasing flushes is dangerous. They are most helpful when they hit on the river
 
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Unashamed88

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Yeah, you are right. I lost and he showed QJo as a winning hand

Well, honestly I didn't know what I was doing when betting that much. I think the thought process was like this: Because I thought him/her to be pretty fishy opponent I really wanted to scare the hell out of him/her. I know that maybe he could have folded a big portion of his range to my 2/3 c-bet there but if the opponent is too "enthusiast" and wants to see the turn I figured that maybe an overbet could wake the player up after a 3-bet(or maybe not, I can not play against fish anyways)

Well I mean what can he have on his range that he doesn't fold except AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 99 (maybe 66) and KdQd. I block every suited Ax of diamonds and only AJo ir AJs is reasonable combination including ace?(correct me if im wrong) well maybe this is just a range for people that really think the game and cards' strength.

Yeah the 2/3 bet would be better, I have to think about my betting a lot, thank you for your comment!
If that's the case then I think you did the right thing putting your unknown villain on an abc range to atleast establish your baseline for the villain. I don't think calling is bad here. But I think checking to your opponent and respecting position on the flop would have more than likely been the better play. Let the villain bet the flop for you and then you retake control how you see fit or he checks back and you get a free card.
 
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