Never fold AA or KK, never slow play them either?

kadafi

kadafi

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Total posts
404
Chips
0
One time i was playing a cash game and i got dealt j10 suited so i raised 4bb's, then some guy re-raises me 8xbb's with qq and i call.

Flop comes A K Q and he goes all in and i call and win a massive pot.
 
L

luckyboy317

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Total posts
4
Chips
0
KK always seems to get me though!! Is it because I'm not aggressive with it early on??
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Total posts
3,834
Awards
1
Chips
29
One time i was playing a cash game and i got dealt j10 suited so i raised 4bb's, then some guy re-raises me 8xbb's with qq and i call.

Flop comes A K Q and he goes all in and i call and win a massive pot.
What relevance does that have to a discussion of whether to slowplay AA and KK? :D
 
B

Bentheman87

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Total posts
794
Chips
0
"One time i was playing a cash game and i got dealt j10 suited so i raised 4bb's, then some guy re-raises me 8xbb's with qq and i call.

Flop comes A K Q and he goes all in and i call and win a massive pot."

WOW awesome dude. That musta been nice. I remember one time I had 77 I limped in early position a few people limped behind me flop came A K 8. I checked then one player bet, then everyone folded to me and I folded also.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2006
Total posts
6,129
Chips
0
With AA and to a lesser exten KKt, slowplaying preflop is a TERRIBLE idea.

I agree with Dave here, never slowplay premium hands from any position, you just open yourself up for a badbeat.

yeah, so i guess that dan harrington guy doesn't know what he's talking about. as has been said there are rarely "nevers" in poker because there are a pretty infinite number of different situations

also, there are several things you can do in poker that make it more likely you'll get outdrawn and lose the hand, but still increase your overall expectation in $$. poker isn't about winning pots, it's about winning money
 
kadafi

kadafi

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Total posts
404
Chips
0
"One time i was playing a cash game and i got dealt j10 suited so i raised 4bb's, then some guy re-raises me 8xbb's with qq and i call.

Flop comes A K Q and he goes all in and i call and win a massive pot."

WOW awesome dude. That musta been nice. I remember one time I had 77 I limped in early position a few people limped behind me flop came A K 8. I checked then one player bet, then everyone folded to me and I folded also.


lol...:rolleyes:


The point of the story is that he did the right thing and still lost to me.

What i mean is getting dealt a high pocket pair is a blessing but if you over value it then you can go broke.

As for strategy i would suggest that you raise big with anything over JJ and pray that nothing helps them on the flop. Slowplaying a big pocket pair is usually a bad move imo as it gives more people the opportunity to catch a lucky card on the flop and bust you.
 
Gobbs

Gobbs

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Total posts
51
Chips
0
I think the best advice here is "never say never" and "always avoid saying always".

I typically make it a practice to play my AA and KK aggressively pre-flop (at least similar to the way I play most other hands with which I raise), but there are times when I will slowplay them. It simply depends on the players left to act behind me. How do the players behind me react to a raise? How do they react to a limp? If I limp, will I get raised? If so, would a raise get re-raised?

If the conditions are right, slowplay. If not, don't.
 
B

baconn

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Total posts
75
Chips
0
The problem with playing KK aggressive preflop is you'll only get called from AK, AQ, AA, and on the flop you'll most likely get an Ace on board. There goes ur money.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2006
Total posts
6,129
Chips
0
The problem with playing KK aggressive preflop is you'll only get called from AK, AQ, AA, and on the flop you'll most likely get an Ace on board. There goes ur money.

lol
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
The problem with playing KK aggressive preflop is you'll only get called from AK, AQ, AA, and on the flop you'll most likely get an Ace on board. There goes ur money.

QUOTE FOR TROOF.
 
B

Bentheman87

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Total posts
794
Chips
0
What preconditions do you guys think you need to slowplay AA or KK? I just played the $24k guarentee and cashed, barely. Only got my buyin back plus like $10. I had AA a lot that tourney, like 4 times. Every time I had it in middle position and raised 3x bb, and every time everyone folded. The blinds were fairly high and the table was aggressive, and now I kinda wish I limped with AA a few times to catch someone.
 
C

Cabfed

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
15
Chips
0
I would have to say that AA and KK are the two hardest hands to play period. No other hands puts you in the positions that these two hands put you in
 
KyleJRM

KyleJRM

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Total posts
735
Chips
0
What preconditions do you guys think you need to slowplay AA or KK? I just played the $24k guarentee and cashed, barely. Only got my buyin back plus like $10. I had AA a lot that tourney, like 4 times. Every time I had it in middle position and raised 3x bb, and every time everyone folded. The blinds were fairly high and the table was aggressive, and now I kinda wish I limped with AA a few times to catch someone.

The time to slowplay AA is when you decide you hate money.
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Total posts
7,594
Awards
1
Chips
3
The time to slowplay AA is when you decide you hate money.

Wth A/A you want as much money in the pot pre-flop as possible, with only one or two villains seeing the flop. The more people who see the flop the more likely you are to get hurt by something weird.

There are times to slow play A/A though. If you're short handed, especially heads up you don't have to worry about too many people seeing the flop. You also want the other guy to hit top pair so you can stack him, because it's easy to pot-commit a guy at the end of a tournament due to the high blinds/antes.

Or if someone is very aggressive, you check to let him bet for you.

Another situation would be if you were in the BB against an aggressive SB. You can let him bet for you each street. Maybe even re-raise when a small card hits the turn to have him try to chase you off a bluff.

But at a full table under normal circumstance, you pretty much have to bet A/A. It's better take the blinds than to get called by four players.
 
l Love Beer

l Love Beer

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Total posts
256
Chips
0
Here is why i wouldn't recommend limping AA preflop at a full table.

full tilt poker Game #7023995890: $32,000 Guarantee (52683490), Table 136 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:09:05 ET - 2008/06/29
Seat 1: Mike Rafferty (8,070)
Seat 2: coinman80 (5,820)
Seat 3: Chillsports (2,635)
Seat 4: l Love Beer (6,620)
Seat 5: cofftea (6,735)
Seat 6: Barrasso (2,195)
Seat 7: nathant222 (3,140)
Seat 8: sniper_AA (3,115)
Seat 9: NiceFrush (9,165)
Chillsports posts the small blind of 60
l Love Beer posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to l Love Beer [3d 7c]
cofftea folds
Barrasso folds
nathant222 folds
sniper_AA folds
NiceFrush folds
Mike Rafferty folds
coinman80 calls 120
Chillsports calls 60
l Love Beer checks
*** FLOP *** [9d 7d 3c]
Chillsports checks
l Love Beer bets 240
coinman80 raises to 480
Chillsports has 15 seconds left to act
Chillsports folds
l Love Beer calls 240
*** TURN *** [9d 7d 3c] [7h]
l Love Beer checks
coinman80 checks
*** RIVER *** [9d 7d 3c 7h] [Js]
l Love Beer has 15 seconds left to act
l Love Beer bets 960
coinman80 calls 960
*** SHOW DOWN ***
l Love Beer shows [3d 7c] a full house, Sevens full of Threes
coinman80 shows [Ah As] two pair, Aces and Sevens
l Love Beer wins the pot (3,240) with a full house, Sevens full of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,240 | Rake 0
Board: [9d 7d 3c 7h Js]
Seat 1: Mike Rafferty didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: coinman80 (button) showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 3: Chillsports (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: l Love Beer (big blind) showed [3d 7c] and won (3,240) with a full house, Sevens full of Threes
Seat 5: cofftea didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Barrasso didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: nathant222 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: sniper_AA didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: NiceFrush didn't bet (folded)
 
D

dumpy620_84

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Total posts
168
Chips
0
Okay well we can agree on that but that doesn't really tell us what to do here now does it. One more point I would make here is that this guy is raising hands up only 5% of the time preflop and has raised utg. Given that we have K,K it is unlikely villain has A,K. A,Q is certainly a possibility I suppose but I think his range is weighted heavily enough towards a high pocket pair to get it in here. I think villain shows up with J,J type hands a lot.

I'd feel more comfortable if we had villain with the same stats over 100+ hands but I do think 50 hands is significant enough here to make me lean towards getting it in. Interested to hear other opinions
 
N

NewHill

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Total posts
60
Chips
0
Never say Never

If you never slow play a hand like AA or KK you are limiting your game and making it very easy for someone to read your play.If everytime you fast play AA or KK it's going to be very easy for someone to lay down their AQ or AJ or medium pairs to you because they know what you are probably holding.
 
T

teksmith

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
128
Chips
0
I only slow play AA if everyone fold around to me in the SB in the hope I can squeeze come chips out of the BB
 
M

mitchellz

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Total posts
51
Chips
0
I have had AA and KK cracked so many times. I try to bet big pre flop to get rid of the marginal hands that seem to suck out on you. After the flop I play them carefully. I have lost big with AA and KK.
 
R

RazzleDazzle

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Total posts
112
Chips
0
I would say never to slow play either just because you give someone the chance to catch.... You definitely need to bet preflop because if you have like KK preflop and bet, you can probably knock out someone with like A2, then if the flop comes A X X, youve increased your chance of taking the pot
 
Folding in Poker
Top