Min-raising

shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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For those of you who constantly min-raise, I would like to ask you what does a min-raise actually accomplish for you?
I mean what do you get from it(info wise)?
 
zachvac

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The one time I don't mind it is when it's a significant portion of your stack. For example you've got like $30 behind and get bet at for $11. Going to $22 isn't terrible. But yeah other than that not much accomplished from it, plus you give action back to the opponent.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

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Did Dorkus put you up to asking this? :)
 
reglardave

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For those of you who constantly min-raise, I would like to ask you what does a min-raise actually accomplish for you?
I mean what do you get from it(info wise)?

I use it as a change of pace play sometimes. I also make this move against aggressive opponents when I'm pretty sure I have the best of it. It will, in certain circumstances, induce a mistake from aggressive opponents.

In CC games, I truthfully will min raise sometimes just to annoy certain forum members who get backed up over such things. ;)
 
vanquish

vanquish

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sometimes its to annoy, sometimes its because it has the same effect as a bigger raise
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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You guys are way better than that, I have learned that trying to min-raise to induce a re-raise backfires most times and ends up in total carnage for me and my stack.
IMHO, there is never a place to min-raise.
BTW, the question was "RHETORICAL" and I do appreciate all the responses just the same :)
 
vanquish

vanquish

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You guys are way better than that, I have learned that trying to min-raise to induce a re-raise backfires most times and ends up in total carnage for me and my stack.
IMHO, there is never a place to min-raise.
BTW, the question was "RHETORICAL" and I do appreciate all the responses just the same :)

i have been coached by players who win at mid/high stakes NL ring, and they've said that min-raises have their place. i'm pretty sure they know what they're talking about.
 
reglardave

reglardave

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You guys are way better than that, I have learned that trying to min-raise to induce a re-raise backfires most times and ends up in total carnage for me and my stack.
IMHO, there is never a place to min-raise.
BTW, the question was "RHETORICAL" and I do appreciate all the responses just the same :)

Here's a "hypothetical" to your rhetorical, and it actuallyy happened just tonite in the CC $3.

A player in EP made a 3 bet. I called from the cutoff with snowmen. Flop came down 10-5-8 rainbow. GIN! EP made a fair size c bet. I put him on a big pair and min-raised. He went allin, and turned up Cowboys. I took a big pot, knocked out a solid player, and nursed my booty to a 2nd place finish.

The min-raise was the perfect play in my position, IMO.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I actually like the EP min raise bluff. Say your UTG with 10J sooted 100 bb stacks and min raise. So many people are used to the UTG min raise meaning only AA that they might fold better hands or they might just call with hands they would normally 3bet because they fear your monster and give you great implied odds if you hit hard (remember they think they know what you have). I don't do it often and I rarely show it down but I do use it. (I rarely min raise UTG with AA but don't tell anyone)
 
odinscott

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Usually I minraise only under 2 circumstances - if I think that I should only call, but cant bring myself to not c-bet or if I hit a monster flop and want to try to get them to come over the top of me.
 
Merlin333

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Why Min-raise ???

How about Deception and
Controlling pot size to name two reasons ?

Merlin333 :cool:
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Here's a "hypothetical" to your rhetorical, and it actuallyy happened just tonite in the CC $3.

A player in EP made a 3 bet. I called from the cutoff with snowmen. Flop came down 10-5-8 rainbow. GIN! EP made a fair size c bet. I put him on a big pair and min-raised. He went allin, and turned up Cowboys. I took a big pot, knocked out a solid player, and nursed my booty to a 2nd place finish.

The min-raise was the perfect play in my position, IMO.

what did a minraise accomplish that a more standard raise wouldn't? people are invariably not folding KK on a T85r board unless you're both very deep stacked whatever you do - this is like saying you open shoved the flop for 5*pot and got called therefore you are awesome and the play was great. :p

also look at how effective your play was against his range, not against the one hand he happened to have.

Deception

It won't work for long. Probably my most common note on CC peeps is "minraise = strong" or "minraise = weak". If you change it up then fine, but you're accomplishing nothing that changing up when you make standard raises wouldn't, with the penalty of giving people odds to draw in many instances and other stuff that I rambled about in my archived thread.
 
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shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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Ok, fair enough, a min raise may have its place sometimes but this question was put out to hear from the newer members who constantly min-raise prflop or on the flop when they hit on a draw heavy board.
But I still stand when I say that there is no room for min-raising as your letting someone catch-up.
eg: your holding A4 clubs in the SB and call, the BB checks and AsAh4h comes on the flop, you just hit the boat, the nuts you think, so you min raise and the turn is a 5h....need I say more?
 
S93

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Here's a "hypothetical" to your rhetorical, and it actuallyy happened just tonite in the CC $3.

A player in EP made a 3 bet. I called from the cutoff with snowmen. Flop came down 10-5-8 rainbow. GIN! EP made a fair size c bet. I put him on a big pair and min-raised. He went allin, and turned up Cowboys. I took a big pot, knocked out a solid player, and nursed my booty to a 2nd place finish.

The min-raise was the perfect play in my position, IMO.


But what hand did u have?
 
reglardave

reglardave

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what did a minraise accomplish that a more standard raise wouldn't? people are invariably not folding KK on a T85r board unless you're both very deep stacked whatever you do - this is like saying you open shoved the flop for 5*pot and got called therefore you are awesome and the play was great. :p

also look at how effective your play was against his range, not against the one hand he happened to have.


.

IMO, an open shove in this spot telegraphs a set; the "subtle" min-reraise disguises my hand strength to a degree. In a reversed situation, this is how I would read the play, and might have enough sense to fold kings here.

I make it an effective play against the range I put him on, which was an overpair to the board; since there was only 1 hand he could have had that I was threatened by Unfortunately, the annoyance factor was absent, except by proxy in this thread. :D
 
woodwidgeon

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Here's a "hypothetical" to your rhetorical, and it actuallyy happened just tonite in the CC $3.

A player in EP made a 3 bet. I called from the cutoff with snowmen. Flop came down 10-5-8 rainbow. GIN! EP made a fair size c bet. I put him on a big pair and min-raised. He went allin, and turned up Cowboys. I took a big pot, knocked out a solid player, and nursed my booty to a 2nd place finish.

The min-raise was the perfect play in my position, IMO.
It's what ever works at the situation you are in. & good final play at game last night.
 
North_Bank

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At times min raise can be fine, but I rarely do it, unless as mentioned above, it represents a fair portion of the remaining stack.

Most of the minraisers I run into don'tknow what they are doing. If people use it well its ok, but I usually see people doing it with maybe a weak top pair or slow playing two pair. If I'm on any draw therefore I'm getting odds (most likely) to call and plenty of times I suck out and they complain why I stayed in with a gutshot or hit runner rnner something. I'm always wary of minraises but I dont get caught out if I only have 1 pair and faced with a larger bet on the river. If people have weak top pair minraising doesn't help because they gt no clue where anyone is at. If I have top pair, I like to get a reasonable read on what my opponent(s) may have, minraising does little mostly when I see it used.

I do also like the min raise preflop EP bluff as mentioned above. I rarely use it but have done in the past and it can work quite well. If you get callers people are still wary and you've taken the lead in the hand at little cost.
 
P

pkrook

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sry but I won't say y i do it but seeing others do it gives me plenty of info.

gl at the tables.
 
NineLions

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Never say never.

Preflop I'll do it lateish in a tourney, the blinds are fairly high relative to stacks and someone limps and I've got a monster. I'll take the risk that he hits a better hand in exchange for him not being able to fold and getting some more money on the table where I'm a fav preflop.

Or in freerolls to induce a shove sometimes too.

Postflop stack sizes come into play again. Sometimes it's the best way to get a weak player to continue with you by minraising his bet. He has something, but you give him pot odds he can't turn down.

And also Ed Miller suggests considering minraises preflop with middle pocket pairs/suited aces/suited connectors. He figures this can work if the table limps/calls your value raise and you hit your big hand. By starting the pot building early without chasing anyone you get a head start at stacking someone.
 
zachvac

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ok here's the one time it may work. It happens a lot against me. You raise preflop in position, and villain will check-minraise. If this is a bluff it's really smart because you risk the least amount of chips and if I don't have a hand I'm folding pretty much 100% of the time without a read. Of course the only reason this would be profitable is the idiots who will do it with a monster hand. A check-raise is an extremely strong move, and if you've got a strong hand you want to build a big pot. Even if I've got something like TPTK, if you check-minraise almost anyone will play to keep the pot as small as possible, folding to a big bet later. But if you raise enough to build the pot you could end up committing TPTK. So it will become predictable, but if you're playing against an unknown (thus you're an unknown to them), a check-minraise bluff could be profitable. It won't work once someone gets a read on you, and it hurts your profit too much to balance your play doing that with monsters as well. But when you have enough donks on the site to balance your play out for you, this could work. I've still never done it. As I said, in general I think the only acceptable reason to do this is if stacks are small compared to the pot.
 
MrMuckets

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I will min raise only when the blinds are big and i don't have the chips to do more. Sometimes it's enough.
 
NineLions

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If you don't have chips to do more, you should be in shove/fold mode.
 
Merlin333

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Min Raise - tactic

I suspect any poker tactic used too often or in the wrong situation will not work. The issue of any tactic is when to use it to exact the result you want. Sometimes the "wrong" tactic will cause the result you want.

If you have an opponent who you have determined interprets a min-raise as "weak", a number of opportunities may present itself where you can induce that opponent to bet out by his interpretation that your min-raise means weakness. An opponent who determines your hand strength by bet size alone can be manipulated.

It's impossible to discuss each and every eventuality of a tactical or strategic situation in this format. Most would not take the time to list each and every situation. In my case I'm sure to not know them all. The point is for each respondent to "chip in their two cents". Except for that information which is factually in error something can be learned from each contribution.

Merlin333 :cool:
 
R

rivertapped

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I'll sometimes min raise from mid to late position with low suited connectors. I want to push out the players to my left and be the last to act on subsequent streets.

On the flop my opponents will often give me a free card, great when I flop a four flush.

If I miss the flop I can often steal the pot if my opponents are passive.

If I'm faced with aggression, I can let the hand go with a minimal loss.
 
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