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wacko555

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Good day everyone,

I recently started playing cash games again after not playing it for a couple of years and only playing some tournaments when I had the time. Started right at NL2 and am now playing NL4 or 5 after about 25000 hands on NL2. Did okay enough. Managed a small win rate of 5.5BB/100. Know it is a very small sample, but the idea is to practise whilst keeping the losses down .

I used to be very nitty, but I am changing my playing style so my reasoning is to go and get comfortable playing a certain style right at the bottom and then go play a little bit higher.

First question is:

Am I wasting my time playing these stakes working on my game when it seems that you have to play very differently than when you move up a little? I am sort of a half LAG at the moment because it is more profitable for me flatting rather than 3betting the call stations.

My plan is to spend maybe another 20000 hands playing NL5 and then move up again if it goes well.

I have $300 in my bank roll so would it be better rather to go straight to NL10 and maybe do my experimenting there?

I feel there the level of player will be better and allow me to apply and test my strategy against players who think a level or two higher. Even if I lose I believe I will improve more than playing ABC poker at a lower limit.

Sometimes I feel like most of the studying I am doing does not apply to the stakes that I am playing at and playing there is detrimental to my growth as a player.

Is this flawed thinking and should I rather spend the next month grinding NL5 and only move to the next stake once I have a decent win rate?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
 
Tracid

Tracid

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Good day everyone,

I recently started playing cash games again after not playing it for a couple of years and only playing some tournaments when I had the time. Started right at NL2 and am now playing NL4 or 5 after about 25000 hands on NL2. Did okay enough. Managed a small win rate of 5.5BB/100. Know it is a very small sample, but the idea is to practise whilst keeping the losses down .

I used to be very nitty, but I am changing my playing style so my reasoning is to go and get comfortable playing a certain style right at the bottom and then go play a little bit higher.

First question is:

Am I wasting my time playing these stakes working on my game when it seems that you have to play very differently than when you move up a little? I am sort of a half LAG at the moment because it is more profitable for me flatting rather than 3betting the call stations.

My plan is to spend maybe another 20000 hands playing NL5 and then move up again if it goes well.

I have $300 in my bank roll so would it be better rather to go straight to NL10 and maybe do my experimenting there?

I feel there the level of player will be better and allow me to apply and test my strategy against players who think a level or two higher. Even if I lose I believe I will improve more than playing ABC poker at a lower limit.

Sometimes I feel like most of the studying I am doing does not apply to the stakes that I am playing at and playing there is detrimental to my growth as a player.

Is this flawed thinking and should I rather spend the next month grinding NL5 and only move to the next stake once I have a decent win rate?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Hiya wacko555,

Welcome to cardschat and thanks for posting!

We've had some issues over the last couple of days but it seems to be sorted now, apologies for the delayed reply.

I'm not really a cash game player but generally speaking it pays to move up gradually and to do so when you are consistently beating your current level.

If strats aren't working in micros, you're probably not going to have more success at higher stakes.

It might be worth rewording your question here (multiple identical posts aren't allowed)...

Cash game strategy subforum.

Where it will be seen by more cash-focused players.

If you don't want to type it out again, I can move this thread there if you would like. Just let me know.

All the best,
 
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wacko555

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Hiya wacko555,

Welcome to cardschat and thanks for posting!

We've had some issues over the last couple of days but it seems to be sorted now, apologies for the delayed reply.

I'm not really a cash game player but generally speaking it pays to move up gradually and to do so when you are consistently beating your current level.

If strats aren't working in micros, you're probably not going to have more success at higher stakes.

It might be worth rewording your question here (multiple identical posts aren't allowed)...

Cash game strategy subforum.

Where it will be seen by more cash-focused players.

If you don't want to type it out again, I can move this thread there if you would like. Just let me know.

All the best,


Hi, thank you for the reply.

I would appreciate it if you can move it to the other forum for me please.
 
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fundiver199

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There is not a lot of difference between, how 5NL and 10NL play, at least not on sites, that also offer 2NL. As Nathan Villiams just wrote in another thread, the biggest difference tend to be between the lowest and second lowest limit, because most of the absolute beginners go to the lowest limit.

So I would say, that as you describe it, it pretty much dont matter, if you play 5NL or 10NL. You are not "wasting time" playing 5NL, but you are also not massively more likely to end up losing, because you play 10NL. I do agree with tracid though, that its a good strategy to take it one step at a time. If nothing else having 60BI rather than 30BI in your bankroll makes it easier to absorb some variance and stay away from tilt :)
 
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UkoChebuko

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Playing very nitty as default is a good choice. The right one...And this win rate 6bb/100 hands is pretty normal, if you are not good with the HUD. With 6/100 it is better to stay there. At NL5. You need at least 8-9bb to go to NL10. This extra blinds will come with an exploit, with usage of the HUD. Try to use more complex HUD, use your time, when you play.
 
LevySystem

LevySystem

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Playing very nitty as default is a good choice. The right one...And this win rate 6bb/100 hands is pretty normal, if you are not good with the HUD. With 6/100 it is better to stay there. At NL5. You need at least 8-9bb to go to NL10. This extra blinds will come with an exploit, with usage of the HUD. Try to use more complex HUD, use your time, when you play.



Given the small samplesizes I don't think we can determine OPs true winrate, therefore the difference between 6 and 9bb is not really coming into play.
Apart from that, beating a level with +5bb over relevant samplesizes is an achievement in itself and suggest OP should move up. I wouldn't downplay it by saying he needs a certain amount of bb/100. From a theoretical point of view you allways want to play for maximum EV, therefore if you know you beat a level and your BR can support the downswings you expect, you allways want to play the highest stakes possible.

OT:

As others allready stated, there is no real difference in way people play at microstakes level. Generally speaking the higher you go below nl25, the good players get better, fish stay somewhat the same. Also the fish to Reg ratio will decrease, so game selecting becomes more important.

Personally I would feel confident even playing zoom with a 30Buyin BR. But that's having a set default strat and being sure that I beat the level.

So in conclusion I would suggest, you play nl5 and gradually add 1-2 tables of nl10 and so on. This will reduce variance and you can have a look into the new pool while building up confidence.

In the end its just a risk-reward thing, like most things really :D

GL at the tables
 
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fundiver199

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If you are playing for profit and has already reached, what is going to be your permanent level, then it makes sense to not move up, unless you are sure, this will actually increase your hourly winrate. When I compare myself on sharkscope with some of the better regulars, who have played higher average buyin, then their average profit per MTT is not always that much higher than mine. And since moving up comes with more variance and more stress, its certainly not a goal in itself.

However when you have just started, then you are essentially practicing, and then it can make a lot of sense to expose yourself to slightly better competition, as soon as you feel ready for it. So I would also not advocate staying at limits like 2NL or 5NL for a very long time only to reach some fairly meaningless goal like a 9BB winrate. With a 300$ "bankroll", its not about, how fast you can grow it, its about how fast you can grow your skills.
 
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Qrise

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I would recommend playing MTT or SnG and not cash games. Divide your bankroll into parts and play tournaments better. The cash game is too nervous and gambling, after which you always want to win back. And tournaments are smoother, more calm and with elements of sports, many appreciate it
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Good day everyone,

I recently started playing cash games again after not playing it for a couple of years and only playing some tournaments when I had the time. Started right at NL2 and am now playing NL4 or 5 after about 25000 hands on NL2. Did okay enough. Managed a small win rate of 5.5BB/100. Know it is a very small sample, but the idea is to practise whilst keeping the losses down .

I used to be very nitty, but I am changing my playing style so my reasoning is to go and get comfortable playing a certain style right at the bottom and then go play a little bit higher.

First question is:

Am I wasting my time playing these stakes working on my game when it seems that you have to play very differently than when you move up a little? I am sort of a half LAG at the moment because it is more profitable for me flatting rather than 3betting the call stations.

My plan is to spend maybe another 20000 hands playing NL5 and then move up again if it goes well.

I have $300 in my bank roll so would it be better rather to go straight to NL10 and maybe do my experimenting there?

I feel there the level of player will be better and allow me to apply and test my strategy against players who think a level or two higher. Even if I lose I believe I will improve more than playing ABC poker at a lower limit.

Sometimes I feel like most of the studying I am doing does not apply to the stakes that I am playing at and playing there is detrimental to my growth as a player.

Is this flawed thinking and should I rather spend the next month grinding NL5 and only move to the next stake once I have a decent win rate?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks


I think you have a good plan here wacko, and very nice of you to join the community!

If you jump to 10nl you may feel a bit too much pressure
(I know I did anytime I played a limit with fewer than 50 buyins)
So your current plan to put in volume and prove a winrate is definitely a good one.

In terms of wasted learning and study, honestly, as long as you are developing your thought process it will help you all the way up. There may be some little tricks and exploits that will work at smaller limits and not at bigger ones but those are easy to drop as you move up.

The big thing is building your discipline and comfort with the process of reading hands. As you're able to do this and able to put in volume as you play this will help you with moving up.

Good luck on the tables!
 
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crazycitizen

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Good day everyone,

Am I wasting my time playing these stakes working on my game when it seems that you have to play very differently than when you move up a little?

I have $300 in my bank roll so would it be better rather to go straight to NL10 and maybe do my experimenting there?

Is this flawed thinking and should I rather spend the next month grinding NL5 and only move to the next stake once I have a decent win rate?

1. “Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted.” John Lennon.
You are not wasting time working on your game, quite the contrary.

2. I would not advise moving up stakes AND experimenting. But 30BIs is reasonable to take a shot at NL10.

3. Logic says grind NL5, art says try NL10.
Maybe you should grind NL5, and take a few shots at NL10 (cautiously).
 
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