Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

I always respect and believe the know how of experienced players, But the more money I lose to these guys the harder it is to keep the same tight style up. These calling stations that will go in with 5/6 unsuited and beat my pocket kings on the river, Or check/limp in with a 2c raise with a 3 Aces on the flop, How can you play against that? I find I play better when im more passive simply because I dont lose as much to these guys.

Entering a new table the fish almost always have more than the max buy in.

Im sure this gets brought up all the time. Its just hard when all the science doesnt match the reality (or at least my reality )

Originally Posted by JR1987

Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

The fish is allowed to do everything. It is up to us how we deal with it. Bet larger with value, go thinner for value and dont bluff these type of players.

If you're playing strong hands then variance will help you win out in the end.

They don't win. Trust me. I literally hunt these guys down, it's really the only strategy I use. If there isn't a fish at the table I just leave. They are big, big losers. Don't play like them.

Originally Posted by JR1987

Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

I always respect and believe the know how of experienced players, But the more money I lose to these guys the harder it is to keep the same tight style up. These calling stations that will go in with 5/6 unsuited and beat my pocket kings on the river, Or check/limp in with a 2c raise with a 3 Aces on the flop, How can you play against that? I find I play better when im more passive simply because I dont lose as much to these guys.

Entering a new table the fish almost always have more than the max buy in.

Im sure this gets brought up all the time. Its just hard when all the science doesnt match the reality (or at least my reality )

One of the things I learned through the last year in micro cash games is when you have fish and donks on your table you should not bluff they just call everything
The only thing that works against this players is tight play

Originally Posted by JR1987

Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

I always respect and believe the know how of experienced players, But the more money I lose to these guys the harder it is to keep the same tight style up. These calling stations that will go in with 5/6 unsuited and beat my pocket kings on the river, Or check/limp in with a 2c raise with a 3 Aces on the flop, How can you play against that? I find I play better when im more passive simply because I dont lose as much to these guys.

Entering a new table the fish almost always have more than the max buy in.

Im sure this gets brought up all the time. Its just hard when all the science doesnt match the reality (or at least my reality )

What you are experiencing is a short run bias. Because fish are willing to gamble they will often have a big stack ... until they have no stack.

The reason it seems like you only see fish with big stacks is because once they've lost the money they are gone. There are so many fish with no stacks that you aren't seeing because they lost the money before you got there.

As you play longer sessions and watch the natural flow of the game you will see that maniacs and fish can build up all kinds of stacks but that most days they will finish with zero when the session is done. The good players on the other hand will slowly and steadily build their stacks up and will rarely finish a session bust.

This is why it's important to have enough buyins behind. A fish can get it in 40/60% and easily take your stack one time. But if you have enough to buy in again, and again, it's very unlikely they will win 2 3 or 4 of these 40/60s in a row.

Also the difference between a fish and a reg is that a reg will rarely get it in with 0-1% equity but a fish will do this quite often, not being able to fold top pair or overpairs deepstacked.

Once you learn more about deepstack play, position, volume and keep putting yourself in the right spots you'll see that these fish aren't so easy to beat afterall, it just takes a bit of stomach to be able to withstand the variance (but that's gambling for you!)

Good luck in the games my friend

Micros: Fish and Maniacs always seem to win

Its not true by my opinion
Yes sometimes they are lucky.
And there are many.
But on a long period they are always at a loss

Originally Posted by Evan Jarvis

The reason it seems like you only see fish with big stacks is because once they've lost the money they are gone. There are so many fish with no stacks that you aren't seeing because they lost the money before you got there.

We also tend to forget the times, the fish fold, because we dont get to see their hand. And this is why, it might seem like, they always nail their gutshot or hit a random two pair on the river, while in reality they dont.

The fish plays so out of despair that it fails to win. And she starts to improvise. Which is not desirable in poker. This is a bad tactic leading to 100% loss. 2-3 victories in the fish do not mean that they will be lucky all the time. Play with a good card and resist the temptation to play like a fish.

Originally Posted by JR1987

Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

I always respect and believe the know how of experienced players, But the more money I lose to these guys the harder it is to keep the same tight style up. These calling stations that will go in with 5/6 unsuited and beat my pocket kings on the river, Or check/limp in with a 2c raise with a 3 Aces on the flop, How can you play against that? I find I play better when im more passive simply because I dont lose as much to these guys.

Entering a new table the fish almost always have more than the max buy in.

Im sure this gets brought up all the time. Its just hard when all the science doesnt match the reality (or at least my reality )

By your own admission, you are new to poker.

It might be astute to focus on your own game, mistakes and studies rather than lamenting those who you perceive to be 'fish' or 'maniacs' getting lucky.

Take heart from, and heed, the constructive responses you've received here from experienced players who know what they're talking about.

Keep the faith, focus on that which you can control and your studies & discipline will pay off in time.

All the best!

Originally Posted by Evan Jarvis

What you are experiencing is a short run bias. Because fish are willing to gamble they will often have a big stack ... until they have no stack.

The reason it seems like you only see fish with big stacks is because once they've lost the money they are gone. There are so many fish with no stacks that you aren't seeing because they lost the money before you got there.

As you play longer sessions and watch the natural flow of the game you will see that maniacs and fish can build up all kinds of stacks but that most days they will finish with zero when the session is done. The good players on the other hand will slowly and steadily build their stacks up and will rarely finish a session bust.

This is why it's important to have enough buyins behind. A fish can get it in 40/60% and easily take your stack one time. But if you have enough to buy in again, and again, it's very unlikely they will win 2 3 or 4 of these 40/60s in a row.

Also the difference between a fish and a reg is that a reg will rarely get it in with 0-1% equity but a fish will do this quite often, not being able to fold top pair or overpairs deepstacked.

Once you learn more about deepstack play, position, volume and keep putting yourself in the right spots you'll see that these fish aren't so easy to beat afterall, it just takes a bit of stomach to be able to withstand the variance (but that's gambling for you!)

Good luck in the games my friend

If you are not convinced, you can try to play like them, only so you will make sure that it is a loss at a distance

Originally Posted by Tracid

By your own admission, you are new to poker.

It might be astute to focus on your own game, mistakes and studies rather than lamenting those who you perceive to be 'fish' or 'maniacs' getting lucky.

Oh yes, I am definitely a fish, haha. Which I dont mind so long as I can learn how eventually not to be.

Thank you for all the advice, everyone. Much appreciated

Originally Posted by JR1987

Oh yes, I am definitely a fish, haha. Which I dont mind so long as I can learn how eventually not to be.

Thank you for all the advice, everyone. Much appreciated

I wouldn't describe you as a fish, you seemed to have already garnered pretty good insight and understanding of the game in your time so far...

We all have to start somewhere!

Being able to let the gross beats slide & roll off is a big part of being a successful player, regardless of format..

Any player can win with any hand, earning money from poker is about long run and taking odds to your side.

Originally Posted by JR1987

Currently I have a VPiP of 20, PFR 18 and Agg 45.

I am new to poker but trying to study alot and focus on beating the micros before anything else.

I play tight and aggressively but I seem to be consistently beaten by the maniacs with VPiPs of 70+.

I always respect and believe the know how of experienced players, But the more money I lose to these guys the harder it is to keep the same tight style up. These calling stations that will go in with 5/6 unsuited and beat my pocket kings on the river, Or check/limp in with a 2c raise with a 3 Aces on the flop, How can you play against that? I find I play better when im more passive simply because I dont lose as much to these guys.

Entering a new table the fish almost always have more than the max buy in.

Im sure this gets brought up all the time. Its just hard when all the science doesnt match the reality (or at least my reality )

It is not uncommon what you say and it is not your reality anything else, it is true that that happens, but the best thing is not to swim against the current and adjust to the level of the other players and their play styles, link to click something good in board and play aggressive. For what you study it will be better to use it at higher levels where they can believe you and take your game seriously.