Losing from the Blinds - Beginner's Question

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eckster

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I'm new to poker (11.000 hands so far) and play micro limit hold'em. I recently loaded all my hand histories into Poker Office and started poking around.

One thing that really caught me by surprise is that I show a profit from all positions expect the blinds. I lose about twice as much from the big blind as I do from the small blind. I have lost a bit overall, so the profits from the remaining positions pretty much equal my losses in the blinds.

I have thought a bit about it, and I can't seem to figure it out... is the main problem that I'm losing too much in the blinds, or is it that I'm not making large enough profit from the other positions to make up for an inevitable loss in the blinds?

My guess is that it's probably a bit of both (which is really just another way of saying that my game needs overall improvement), but still, I'd really appreciate some input from more experienced players. Do these stats show a major problem in my game (e.g. being too loose in the blinds), or are they somewhat "normal"?
 
tosborn

tosborn

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Take a look at this thread.

Analyzing Poker Tracker Statistics

If you have any additional questions post them. It is inevitable that you will lose money out of the blinds.

You might want to post a screenshot of your actual statistics and others will have a chance to give you some feedback on them.
 
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eckster

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Thanks tosborn - very useful post. I might post my stats later when I have more data (and better questions).
 
Mojomax747

Mojomax747

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Protecting your blinds in limit poker ring games is far less important then protecting them in mtts as they never increase. Dont be afraid to give up your blinds once in a while.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Position, position, position. You're in poor position in the blinds so it's much more difficult to play the hand since you'll be first to act on every street (flop,turn,river). Your opponent can take advantage of this and bet any time you check. If you have no hand (which you won't over half the time), you'll probably have to fold. Everyone loses more from the blinds. It's a normal part of the game. Fold weak hands in the small blind and don't call bets from the BB unless you have a good starting hand (i.e. not K10 offsuit).
 
joosebuck

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look at the bigger losses from the bb and see if there was something you could do. if there werent a couple of those then you are playing too many hands from the bb.
 
RammerJammer

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You're being forced to bet regardless of the strength of your pockets. It's inevitable that you will not have a playable hand most of the time and will fold pre-flop. Even if you are allowed by the table to limp in from the blind, you'll fold the unimproved flop. It's the very nature of the beast to be a positional "loser" from the blinds, so don't sweat it. One big tip that I took to heart early on and have practiced ever since, is don't play cards from the small blind that you wouldn't otherwise play just because you already have half the minimum bet invested. This is a beginner's mistake that you see at every table, every day...people playing starters in the small blind that they would muck without a thought from any other seat. Over the course of several hours at a cash table, or in a MTT, the chips you save by folding the small blind really add up.
 
dj11

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My own play at SB is that it is the cheapest bet in town. Assuming rags, any time I can limp in at SB I will, almost with ATC. Especially if there are several other limpers. Under all but the largest blinds, the pot odds seem favorable. I will seldom call into a pot if raised.

Oddly, I heard Phil Gordon say the same thing on a TV gig last year. Or perhaps it was a Full Tilt Pros chat. I only put the voice to the comment, knowing it was Phil.

Does this mean I have defender tendancies. Don't think so. Under that one situation, being able to limp in, with the added posibility to be the first to act post flop should I hit the flop I do not see this as a negative proposition.

I do not use PT or Poker Office or any other tracker so I may be totally fooling myself.
 
RammerJammer

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dj, based upon our strategic disagreements over the last couple of days, I only have two questions...Do you play on Full Tilt? If so, how can I find you? Because I definitely would like you at my cash table as often as possible. :bike:
 
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joeeagles

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Quote from David Sklansky:

"Over their careers, many players lose quite a bit of money from the blind positions. This is because they frequently overestimate the value of their hand in comparison to the partial bet that they are required to make to continue playing."

So Eckster, don't be overly concerned that you lose from the blinds, it happens to the best. You said that overall you're just a bit in the red, that's not too bad since you're new to the game, but if you're looking for tips to improve it appears that you'll have to produce more from other positions as its perfectly normal to be in the red in the blinds. That is unless you're calling too many raises from the blinds, in that case slow down on it.

As for dj11, I'm sorry bud, I have to side with Rammer on this one. I used to play the SB just like you say but I've been trying to get away from it. It is true that if you add up how many times in a session you play the SB, you'll see that you save quite a bit. Add in up in month, you'll probably save enough to buy-in for a Sunday million. Don't take it personally bro, think about it.
 
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bill118911

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ya make sure there arent to many raises involved when u r big blind that could have alot to do with it also u might be calling them also
 
reglardave

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I've never been a big fan of the "defending yer blinds" school of thought. They are part of the game, you are in the same dilemna as everyone else at the table, and once they're into the pot, they aren't really yours to "defend" any more.

I almost never call a raised pot from the blinds with other than premium hands, ut I'll limp into an unraised pot from the sab with ATC in most situations
 
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eckster

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ya make sure there arent to many raises involved when u r big blind that could have alot to do with it also u might be calling them also

Thanks for all the feedback. I did some more digging and I think I'm calling too many raises from the BB as Bill suggested.

This is really a great forum - I'm glad I joined :)
 
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