Limping in cash games!

swannymojo

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I just finished reading your post(s) for the third time. Those are some great thoughts and full of good advice. Thank you for taking the time to make me better and share that with me.

Cheers,
 
seeyouthru

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It really depends on table dynamic. I've been in several games where limping with an expanded range of starting hands can be profitable.
yup.
my thoughts.
you gotta keep it cheap it pre when you are playing with calling stations where you have no bluffs!
 
ScooperNova

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Cardschat threads about limping---Never do it
Cardschat freeroll------Limpfest
 
MattRyder

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Limping is always risky. You have to be prepared for anything post flop. I do limp sometimes to see who is going to raise me and how much. I can then use that information to judge what type of hand the raiser may be playing. There is also an expectation that the pre-flop raiser will c-bet post flop. So if I am lucky enough to flop a good hand (and I do mean "lucky") then I can let the pre-flop raiser c-bet at which point I will usually raise and I will usually be called. In the end I get to play a speculative hand for cheap and potentially win more from my villain if he sees me as being weak.

I know - it all sounds convoluted. I repeat what I said in the beginning - limping is always risky.
 
VisionNutz

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Good players will see you limping a lot and attack you from position.

If you wanna do that I suggest you also balance by limping strong hands and when they 4 bet you can go over the top with the 5 bet pre flop.
 
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braveslice

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Good players will see you limping a lot and attack you from position.
If you want to do that I suggest you also balance by limping strong hands and when they 4 bet you can go over the top with the 5 bet pre flop.
I have never seen player who can balance his limp strategy by limping strong hands. It's mostly a wonderful memory on fish head when he stacks someone, totally forgetting those 20 times he lost the pot. Also you lose value if you start limping strong hands, with strong hands you want to build large pot. It's no coincidence that profitable players mark limpers as a fish, it's because he is. Not likely, but he just is. All good players can't be wrong.

Just to give an example, I know it’s pointless because bad players are bad because they don’t know how to learn. But just for fun bear with me, maybe some not quite sure what to do is reading this still wanting to learn.

300k hands, what is the win rate when player limped first in? Negative or Positive value? You know the answer deep down right?

-41.51bb/100 – granted it’s less than I would imagine but still there is quite much to improve.

Now it’s not quite that black and white:
Some do seem to make profit, I have limped 868 hands during my poker career and my win is 6.53bb/100 this includes a long the brainless not to know what to do at all period too. Best player in my database is guy with massive limped 86 hands 310bb/100 -> He must be good right? F*ck no, his overall win rate is -4.79 bb/100. So the guy can limp (using friendship with the gods is my guess) sacrificing everything else.


But given rake most are not profitable players, so the substance to -41.51bb/100 we see what is average win rate when player opens with raise first in, that number is, wait for it… wait for it… +46.98bb/100 :D

So the difference is 88.49bb/100 :eek:

I doubt limpers have the stamina to read all this, well no-one probably has, but if you did read this please remember to keep learning.
 
VisionNutz

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I have never seen player who can balance his limp strategy by limping strong hands. It's mostly a wonderful memory on fish head when he stacks someone, totally forgetting those 20 times he lost the pot. Also you lose value if you start limping strong hands, with strong hands you want to build large pot. It's no coincidence that profitable players mark limpers as a fish, it's because he is. Not likely, but he just is. All good players can't be wrong.

Just to give an example, I know it’s pointless because bad players are bad because they don’t know how to learn. But just for fun bear with me, maybe some not quite sure what to do is reading this still wanting to learn.

300k hands, what is the win rate when player limped first in? Negative or Positive value? You know the answer deep down right?

-41.51bb/100 – granted it’s less than I would imagine but still there is quite much to improve.

Now it’s not quite that black and white:
Some do seem to make profit, I have limped 868 hands during my poker career and my win is 6.53bb/100 this includes a long the brainless not to know what to do at all period too. Best player in my database is guy with massive limped 86 hands 310bb/100 -> He must be good right? F*ck no, his overall win rate is -4.79 bb/100. So the guy can limp (using friendship with the gods is my guess) sacrificing everything else.


But given rake most are not profitable players, so the substance to -41.51bb/100 we see what is average win rate when player opens with raise first in, that number is, wait for it… wait for it… +46.98bb/100 :D

So the difference is 88.49bb/100 :eek:

I doubt limpers have the stamina to read all this, well no-one probably has, but if you did read this please remember to keep learning.
Lots of talk here... Seems to be working for me and I'm a winning player ☺
 
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braveslice

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Lots of talk here... Seems to be working for me and I'm a winning player ☺
Some do seem to make profit, I have limped 868 hands during my poker career and my win is 6.53bb/100 this includes a long the brainless not to know what to do at all period too.
Just to give an example, I know it’s pointless because bad players are bad because they don’t know how to learn
I doubt limpers have the stamina to read all this, well no-one probably has, but if you did read this please remember to keep learning.

Somehow I saw that coming :p I wonder why. Maybe I have seen this quite many times? Also it was not aimed for limpers like I said, but those who try to be better.
 
VisionNutz

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I have never seen player who can balance his limp strategy by limping strong hands. It's mostly a wonderful memory on fish head when he stacks someone, totally forgetting those 20 times he lost the pot. Also you lose value if you start limping strong hands, with strong hands you want to build large pot. It's no coincidence that profitable players mark limpers as a fish, it's because he is. Not likely, but he just is. All good players can't be wrong.

Just to give an example, I know it’s pointless because bad players are bad because they don’t know how to learn. But just for fun bear with me, maybe some not quite sure what to do is reading this still wanting to learn.

300k hands, what is the win rate when player limped first in? Negative or Positive value? You know the answer deep down right?

-41.51bb/100 – granted it’s less than I would imagine but still there is quite much to improve.

Now it’s not quite that black and white:
Some do seem to make profit, I have limped 868 hands during my poker career and my win is 6.53bb/100 this includes a long the brainless not to know what to do at all period too. Best player in my database is guy with massive limped 86 hands 310bb/100 -> He must be good right? F*ck no, his overall win rate is -4.79 bb/100. So the guy can limp (using friendship with the gods is my guess) sacrificing everything else.


But given rake most are not profitable players, so the substance to -41.51bb/100 we see what is average win rate when player opens with raise first in, that number is, wait for it… wait for it… +46.98bb/100 :D

So the difference is 88.49bb/100 :eek:

I doubt limpers have the stamina to read all this, well no-one probably has, but if you did read this please remember to keep learning.
Also please refrain from your Freudian slips to try and insult my intelligence and poker game. Kind of rude as Cards Chat is a safe place to discuss and learn and improve.

I've limped many hands and then come over the top using deception. I've used this strategy with success making sure to play the player and not a statistic.

Cheers
 
VisionNutz

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Somehow I saw that coming [emoji14] I wonder why. Maybe I have seen this quite many times? Also it was not aimed for limpers like I said, but those who try to be better.
Yes we get it man you are a god amongst men.

Sim Simmer down now.
 
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braveslice

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Anger leads you to dark side, maybe tourneys?
 
S

Spewster

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I just finished reading your post(s) for the third time. Those are some great thoughts and full of good advice. Thank you for taking the time to make me better and share that with me.

Cheers,

You're very welcome, dude. Glad I could help.

Somehow I saw that coming :p I wonder why. Maybe I have seen this quite many times? Also it was not aimed for limpers like I said, but those who try to be better.

Well, don't be too frustrated, at least not as tilted as I am when I read bullshit like this. There are a lot of people playing in games where the villains are so horrible that you can get away with anything and still be profitable as long as you hit the nuts once per session. A player from this population will of course pat himself on the shoulder and see himself as a winning limper, although he could easily double his bb/100 just by avoiding those fishy plays.

Tale from the Saturday 5NL donkfests way back in my early days. 2-3 limpers early position, I 3bet the pot from the button every single time. All fold and I collect 3.5BB+ for my efforts a couple of orbits in a row. One of the guys starts flaming in chat insulting me and telling me that I destroy the game adn I should go and **** myself.
Again he limps, I 3bet and he shoves...guess how I crushed him? I folded and lost 3.5bb.
I don't remember how many bb I collected from them uncontested, but granted I was definitely up money. Nowadays they even play worse...they limp/call and check/fold on the flop...Even more free bb :)


Anyways, limpers keep limping and I'm not too unhappy about it. It's easy money and the last thing we'll do is complain about one of the easiest fish traits to exploit, right?
 
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