Limping and flating with Suited or connected hands.

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Muckem

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Hey guys. So I'm having a problem and leaking a little bit of cash. I'm playing NL5. I find that I'm leaking some cash with marginal connected and suited hands. Hands like 79s 10 8o 45s. Etc...

If I'm in early position I'll definitely fold these hands. Its usually in the MP SB BB where I just limp and even call a 3bb raise of 15c. If I like the flop I'll continue if I completely miss ill fold. But I usually miss the flop completely 9/10 times and I feel like I'm losing lots of $$$. Should I be folding these hands?? Feels like I'm getting some good value to see the flop... and when I do hit, which isn't often I get paid. Please help. Thank you.
 
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Dani_California

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Hey guys. So I'm having a problem and leaking a little bit of cash. I'm playing NL5. I find that I'm leaking some cash with marginal connected and suited hands. Hands like 79s 10 8o 45s. Etc...

If I'm in early position I'll definitely fold these hands. Its usually in the MP SB BB where I just limp and even call a 3bb raise of 15c. If I like the flop I'll continue if I completely miss ill fold. But I usually miss the flop completely 9/10 times and I feel like I'm losing lots of $$$. Should I be folding these hands?? Feels like I'm getting some good value to see the flop... and when I do hit, which isn't often I get paid. Please help. Thank you.

Those are actually among my favourite hands as long as they are suited. From those examples you gave, 10-8o is the only one I wouldn't play. The ones I play, I play from early position as well (in 6-max). But why do you limp? I understand that it might be the best choice if someone has already limped before you but if you are the first one to enter the pot, raise that 3bb yourself. That already gives you a chance to steal the pot without even seeing the flop.

Your actions after the flop depend on so many factors that it's impossible to go through all the scenarios but even if you miss the flop, you still have a chance to win the pot. Continuation bet, for example, is one of those chances if you were the original raiser. You don't have to hit the flop to do that. Board texture and the number of opponents in the pot matter of course and sometimes giving up and checking is indeed the best choice just to minimize losses. Still, those small suited connectors have so much potential to win a big pot that I don't think you should be folding them. However, I would suggest to step up your aggression level with them and start stealing some pots without hits, reraise with draws etc. I'm not saying you should go crazy with them, of course not, but you shouldn't just automatically fold or check them if you don't have anything on the flop.

There are definitely players who don't play those kind of hands but I love them. That feeling, when you hit your straight with something like 75s and your opponent has no clue, is definitely worth it :bike:
 
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Muckem

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Those are actually among my favourite hands as long as they are suited. From those examples you gave, 10-8o is the only one I wouldn't play. The ones I play, I play from early position as well (in 6-max). But why do you limp? I understand that it might be the best choice if someone has already limped before you but if you are the first one to enter the pot, raise that 3bb yourself. That already gives you a chance to steal the pot without even seeing the flop.

Your actions after the flop depend on so many factors that it's impossible to go through all the scenarios but even if you miss the flop, you still have a chance to win the pot. Continuation bet, for example, is one of those chances if you were the original raiser. You don't have to hit the flop to do that. Board texture and the number of opponents in the pot matter of course and sometimes giving up and checking is indeed the best choice just to minimize losses. Still, those small suited connectors have so much potential to win a big pot that I don't think you should be folding them. However, I would suggest to step up your aggression level with them and start stealing some pots without hits, reraise with draws etc. I'm not saying you should go crazy with them, of course not, but you shouldn't just automatically fold or check them if you don't have anything on the flop.

There are definitely players who don't play those kind of hands but I love them. That feeling, when you hit your straight with something like 75s and your opponent has no clue, is definitely worth it :bike:

Thank you for taking you time to reply:)

Ahhh, yes that makes alot of sense!! You said you would even play them from EP? Do you raise or limp? Or depending on how aggressive or passive the table is??

Also how about hands like Q8s Q7s... are you playing those as well???
 
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Alexsunshine229

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Might be leaking cash because you're playing too loose.
 
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Dani_California

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Thank you for taking you time to reply:)

No problem, I like to discuss about poker and I would like to see other people answering as well. That's when the learning happens :) But that what I previously wrote is my style and it has been working well so far.

You said you would even play them from EP?

Yes, I play them from EP as well but only in 6-max. I don't usually play bigger tables than that so there things might be different even for me. That's definitely important thing to remember. In 6-max you can play with much larger range even from EP.

Do you raise or limp? Or depending on how aggressive or passive the table is??

I NEVER limp if I am the first one in the pot and here's why: especially with small cards, you don't want to be against the whole table and if you limp, more people will limp behind you. Then you are against four other players for example so you basically have no leverage to bluff anymore if don't hit the flop because there are so many players in the pot that someone probably has something. Against one player though, you have a chance to keep that aggression going and make a continuation bet even without a hit. Your opponent will most likely fold if they don't get anything on the flop. If they call, then you can tone it down and check on turn if you don't have anything.

But yeah, just like you said, the aggression of the table matters also. If there are maniacs who 3bet all the time, I probably just fold my hand pre flop from EP and tighten my range a bit. It's either raise or fold, limping is the best choice only when someone has already limped before you.

Also how about hands like Q8s Q7s... are you playing those as well???

No, those I don't play unless it gets really cheap for me. In the small blind for example when others have limped first, then I play. I try to keep the gap between the cards small from EP, not more than one card: I would play 75s but not 74s.

I really hope my thoughts give you something to think about. Don't be afraid to take risks and try different approaches. You will lose along the way too just like I did but once you figure out the best way to play each hand, winnings are there for you to grab, especially with those small suited connectors ;)

EDIT: And by the way, I have taken these moves from Daniel Negreanu so you should check out his books if you are interested to learn more. He plays small suited connectors a lot. For example "Power Hold'em Strategy" (and specifically the "Small Ball" chapter) is a great book that has been really helpful for me.
 
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Muckem

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No problem, I like to discuss about poker and I would like to see other people answering as well. That's when the learning happens :) But that what I previously wrote is my style and it has been working well so far.



Yes, I play them from EP as well but only in 6-max. I don't usually play bigger tables than that so there things might be different even for me. That's definitely important thing to remember. In 6-max you can play with much larger range even from EP.



I NEVER limp if I am the first one in the pot and here's why: especially with small cards, you don't want to be against the whole table and if you limp, more people will limp behind you. Then you are against four other players for example so you basically have no leverage to bluff anymore if don't hit the flop because there are so many players in the pot that someone probably has something. Against one player though, you have a chance to keep that aggression going and make a continuation bet even without a hit. Your opponent will most likely fold if they don't get anything on the flop. If they call, then you can tone it down and check on turn if you don't have anything.

But yeah, just like you said, the aggression of the table matters also. If there are maniacs who 3bet all the time, I probably just fold my hand pre flop from EP and tighten my range a bit. It's either raise or fold, limping is the best choice only when someone has already limped before you.



No, those I don't play unless it gets really cheap for me. In the small blind for example when others have limped first, then I play. I try to keep the gap between the cards small from EP, not more than one card: I would play 75s but not 74s.

I really hope my thoughts give you something to think about. Don't be afraid to take risks and try different approaches. You will lose along the way too just like I did but once you figure out the best way to play each hand, winnings are there for you to grab, especially with those small suited connectors ;)

EDIT: And by the way, I have taken these moves from Daniel Negreanu so you should check out his books if you are interested to learn more. He plays small suited connectors a lot. For example "Power Hold'em Strategy" (and specifically the "Small Ball" chapter) is a great book that has been really helpful for me.


Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me. Makes alot of sense and hoping to sharpen my game. I was playing some cash game yesterday and keeping your play style in mind, I was able not only hit some of my straights/ flushes which paid well but also take the pot with Cbets.

I will be sure to read those books. Thank you boss.
 
Andrew Popov

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To successfully play these hands, you must understand well what to do on the flop and beyond. Otherwise, you will pay your hands in a small pair on the flop.
 
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