LHE: raising PP preflop into limpers for value ?

J

jeffred1111

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Let's say I'm at a loosish table of .5/1 FR on PS (quite detailed scenario...). I look at 88 in the BB and there was two EP limpers who are loose, but not fishy loose. Their range are thus quite broad, but do not include stupid crap like Q5o: we see more KQo, Axs, JTs, smaller PP.

SH, I will pop this mercilessly since their range do include stupid crap such as K7o due to SH being a tad looser usually. FR, I have trouble because, altough I have an equity edge against there two limpers, the structure of the game and the fact they will not fold, gives them good enough odds 100% of the time to peel with their overcards. Example:

I have raised preflop with my 88.

Flop comes 67J two diamonds wich, SHE, is approx the best flop ever barring no overcards since a hand worth playing with a J in it is usually worth a raise. In FR, a good % of time, I c-bet and someone calls, I'm tempted to pitch it on the turn UI or with good odds to redraw (turn 4 for example) because we are getting valueowned a lot by c/c and b/f opens us up to being exploitable (we bloat the pot and give it away 6-7 times out of 8. What was a good hand with good implied odds preflop has become a nightmare with huge reverse implied odds since EP are right in peeling and there's nothing I can do about it.

So, would it be better to pass up on the small equity edge we have preflop and just play for set value ?

Same thing goes for small pp calling a raise in med. position. The game plays tight enough that unless you flop a set, you are toast against 2-3 players, but reppoping with 88 is probably spew since we risk that it gets capped HU and we are a huge dog or slight favourite and need to spike to win.

So many questions !
 
DaFrench1

DaFrench1

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Personally, I would only raise with 10's and higher and see how it flops with anything below.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Why ? Your post doesn't answer much, if anything (sorry, I don't want to be disrepectful). Why would you only raise TT and above ? Why you don't want to raise other PP ? What is your line if you raise TT here and we see the same flop as in my example ?

Let's think a bit instead of spouting basic wisdom.
 
K

kesc

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I would agree that raising tens and above would be a good way to go if theres already people in the pot. I've come to the conclusion that nobody will ever fold if they already put a bet in the pot at these limits. So, my play would be to keep it cheap as possible and hope the board stays low, or you hit a set, and then bet hard.

I chose tens as the line, just because thats the point where i start thinking high pair.

And this is just my opinion, I have a tendency of playing lhe a little more passively than I should.
 
DaFrench1

DaFrench1

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Why ? Your post doesn't answer much, if anything (sorry, I don't want to be disrepectful). Why would you only raise TT and above ? Why you don't want to raise other PP ? What is your line if you raise TT here and we see the same flop as in my example ?

Let's think a bit instead of spouting basic wisdom.

Fair enough but I thought it so I wrote it! plus I was playing a game at the time.

Two EP limpers aren't going to fold to raise and there is a large chance there is going to be an over on the flop, so then having raised you are out of position and probably going to have to C-bet the flop blind into the two callers with a hand that is unlikely to improve, possibly already beat and if not then could be easily beat on later streets.

If it were TT instead, I probably C-Bet the flop for the reason above and assess the response, with 8's I've limped so I'm check-calling or check-folding.

That's hopefully a better answer.
 
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