After playing a bit, I would have had a winning day today (and many others) if I never jammed pre.

In fact, if I never went all-in at all, my #'s would probably be stellar (cash games only).

When do you jam pre and why?

What is your reasoning behind this?

Doesn't this just create many coin flips? (QQ vs AK for example?)

Shouldn't we all just stop jamming pre? Except *maybe* with AA and KK?

AA KK are jams....but you get little action.
AK AQ could be...but you probably should see the flop with AQ
All the rest are up to you.
Cash games I tend to play poker..3x raise, pot size bets,etc....
If I'm sure there's a call behind me....some maniac loose agg player,definitely preflop jam.

you jam with about 10bb...the rest rereise wit aa,kk ,ak,qq etc...

Jamming pre with anything other than AA or KK is a bad idea imo, usually I raise with AA - KK then if someone 3bets absurdly I shove it

As far as I see it the cash game table is a highly skilled steady profits table 120K hands per era session not a gambling table. All hands except aces are still a gamble and aces against two opponets with random hands like 72o and 93o still loses 36% of time. AK loses to A2 25% of the time. KK loses to any ace hand 30% of time. The second best hand in the game is still a loser for your entire stack 30% of the time. Pre flop jamming is pretty much all objectively speaking a gamble.

I jam pre when I have aces or when I have a read that I am better than 3 to 1. In MTT this is completely different structure with different standards.

You should be jamming when you SPR(Stack-to Pot-Ratio) is 0-3. What that means is take you stack and divide it by the pot. If the pot is $10 and you have $100 back you shouldn't be shoving. The SPR is 10 and you shouldn't stack off. Obviously there's hands you'd have that would call a shove, but you shouldn't be jamming. If the SPR is 3-6 then there's situations where you should and shouldn't. Mostly it would depend on table dynamics. If you're at a table with a fish and you know he's going to call jamming with this SPR while holding AA can be profitable and exploit his bad play. If you have AK and you know he's prone to call with any holdings you need to break down the hand. Then take the pot odds, his range and find out if you're getting the right price to raise, limp or jam.

Last night I jammed pre with QT suited, but that was because there was a 3 bet and a call, both from those who would make those plays light, and calling was over 50% of what I had behind (was down quite a bit from opening stack).

Generally though I try to stay away from shoving pre, especially at the 1/2 level

Originally Posted by playinggameswithu

As far as I see it the cash game table is a highly skilled steady profits table 120K hands per era session not a gambling table. All hands except aces are still a gamble and aces against two opponets with random hands like 72o and 93o still loses 36% of time. AK loses to A2 25% of the time. KK loses to any ace hand 30% of time. The second best hand in the game is still a loser for your entire stack 30% of the time. Pre flop jamming is pretty much all objectively speaking a gamble.

I jam pre when I have aces or when I have a read that I am better than 3 to 1. In MTT this is completely different structure with different standards.

Yes. I was going to say something similar, even down to the mtt differing from cash game.

Preflop all in is the riskiest play you can make in the game. Even with AA you are at considerable risk.

I am not a huge fan of getting it all in pre with any hand. A big part of my game is post flop play. If I am putting it in pre it feels more like gambling than playing too me.

Originally Posted by VMVarga

Yes. I was going to say something similar, even down to the mtt differing from cash game.

Preflop all in is the riskiest play you can make in the game. Even with AA you are at considerable risk.

Yea though MTT are for gambling to win big. I never understood guys who grinded low MTTs its time consuming idiotic activity.

Here is a tip. Don't jam if you're OOP to someone who just got sucked out in the previous hand. You are welcome.

Originally Posted by playinggameswithu

As far as I see it the cash game table is a highly skilled steady profits table 120K hands per era session not a gambling table. All hands except aces are still a gamble and aces against two opponets with random hands like 72o and 93o still loses 36% of time. AK loses to A2 25% of the time. KK loses to any ace hand 30% of time. The second best hand in the game is still a loser for your entire stack 30% of the time. Pre flop jamming is pretty much all objectively speaking a gamble.

I jam pre when I have aces or when I have a read that I am better than 3 to 1. In MTT this is completely different structure with different standards.

Originally Posted by playinggameswithu

Yea though MTT are for gambling to win big. I never understood guys who grinded low MTTs its time consuming idiotic activity.

a couple more posts that show how little you actually know.

There have been plenty of good winning micro & low stakes MTT players (& MTT SNG) who are able to make roi+20 to +30% over the longrun. Micro grinders (27 man, 45man sng) could be playing upwards of 100 games per day. Low stakes MTT, could be 40 to 50 games per day.
Do the math.