innocent question about pot odds

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pogreshilly

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It's ring limit. I am in late position and get QT offsuit. There are three callers plus the blinds, and I can be sure from experience the small blind will call. I call, small blind calls, big blind checks. It worked out as expected, but the flop is 746 rainbow. I have 6 outs to make a pair with 47 cards left so 7.89:1 odds to make an okay hand. If one person bets and I call, that makes the pot odds 8:1 which means I should call. As it turns out one person bets and another person calls, but then the third guy raises. That drops my pot odds to 5:1 if I call and 6:1 even if the original bettor and caller call the raise, so I fold.

Did I miss something important or do I have the basics of this pot odds business right?
 
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Toad

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I think you have the concept of pot odds down, but there are some other things that I'd consider before playing this hand.

The odds you mentioned were to hit a pair...not a very strong hand. Let's say you hit a Q on the turn. Now you have top pair, but your kicker is marginal at best with multiple people who are still in the pot. Good chance you are behind here...maybe a QJ, KQ or AQ still in.

Let's say you hit a 10 on the turn. You've got top pair with a decent kicker, but now you have a whole new set of problems. What if one of the many callers was sitting on 89 and just nutted a straight?

Not to mention someone hitting 2 pair or slow playing a set, etc.



I rarely call a even a minimum bet with just overcards, with the exception of AK or maybe AQ in late position. Even then I want good pot odds and no potential straights/flushes on the board.

I don't mind limping in with Q10 in late position, but unless you get a straight draw or hit one of your cards on the flop I would get out of the hand and look for a better chance to make your money.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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Pot odds is fine, assuming your drawing to a winning hand.
 
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pogreshilly

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Thanks, guys. I gave some thought to that hand and realized it wasn't the smartest move to call, but I wanted to know whether my understanding of the pot odds was solid.
 
CrackaNACtion

CrackaNACtion

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i got a q with ur math though. wouldnt there be less cards in the deck that uid be drawing into ur hand? if ur playing 9 handed then 18 cards are out plus the burn card plus the flop so 22 cards are gone leacing 32 to make ur hand. and if it was just 4 handed it would be 8 plus 1 plus 3 leaving 42 cards left in the deck? right? or no? lol
 
Effexor

Effexor

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i got a q with ur math though. wouldnt there be less cards in the deck that uid be drawing into ur hand? if ur playing 9 handed then 18 cards are out plus the burn card plus the flop so 22 cards are gone leacing 32 to make ur hand. and if it was just 4 handed it would be 8 plus 1 plus 3 leaving 42 cards left in the deck? right? or no? lol

wrong.

You always have to count all cards that you don't know.

For example:

If you are in a hand with 1 other person, and you see a flop. You only know what 5 of the cards are, so you use the other 47 in your calculations of possible outs.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Thanks, guys. I gave some thought to that hand and realized it wasn't the smartest move to call, but I wanted to know whether my understanding of the pot odds was solid.
Your understanding of pot odds is fine, but you would do well to keep in mind that not all of your outs (in this case, six) are going to be "live." For instance, if the flop is 7-6-5, someone may have Q-7, which means that the three queens are not outs for you (not because they're just "two" but because those two will give someone else two pair, and you top pair).

Sometimes you're drawing dead (someone flopped a set). Etc.

Counting and discounting outs is an essential skill for limit hold 'em. I much recommend Ed Miller's "Small Stakes Hold 'em" for reading about this.
 
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