I wonder I should have played this

D

Daithi

Rock Star
PartyGaming - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

SB: $13.63 (136.3 bb)
BB: $23.17 (231.7 bb)
Hero (UTG): $16.60 (166 bb) 17/14/12 (73hands)
MP: $10.15 (101.5 bb) 45/14/0 (60 hands)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.37 (123.7 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Ad :ad4: :kh:
Hero raises to $0.30, MP raises to $1.05, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25, 2 players) :ks: :6c4: :2h:
Hero checks, MP bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($5.45, 2 players) :10s:
Hero checks, MP bets $2.95, Hero raises to $13.95 and is all-in, MP calls $4.55 and is all-in

River: ($20.45, 2 players) :2c4:

Results: $20.45 pot ($0.00 rake)
Final Board: :ks: :6c4: :2h: :10s: :2c4:

MP shows :ah: :ac4:: (Two Pair, Aces and Twos)
(Pre 93%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows :ad4: :kh:: (Two Pair, Kings and Twos)
(Pre 7%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)

Hero wins $0.00
MP wins $19.45


I know villain has 0% 3bet on these 60 hands but at other tables he would be around 5-7. party poker doesn't allow aggregate stats.

I was ready to give up the hand postflop. But imo AK is too strong not to see the flop, unless it's an absolute NIT 3betting or fish who never 3bets. I was cautious though. Unfortunately I caught TPTK. At first I wanted to limit the size of the pot since they weren't suited. So I checked to see what he does. He takes a lead. My hand is too strong to fold. I am hoping he has a weaker ace or some distant fishy draw. I attempt to limit the pot again by checking, hoping he will check the Turn after a failed steal on the Flop. But he leads again. I am worried here since more draws have come up here now.

If I call, I see he will be pot committed. He's already on the borderline. My line of thinking is I must utilize some fold equity if he's on a draw. I beat the weaker Kings and missed AQs, aside from KT. His PFR isnt loose enough for K6 and K2. Sets are a problem and of course Aces too.

It was a risky move. But playing for stacks was inevitable, I think. If I called the Turn he would have pushed me all in on the River and I would have to fold without showdown.

What were my options? Fold to 3bet preflop? Fold to the Turn bet? His AF is 2.0. WTSD 50
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TenJack

TenJack

Rock Star
I think that flatting pre is fine, you could 4-bet but i think this guy is going to be 3-betting pretty value heavey and isn't likely to fold. (his stats show that he is super loose and pretty passive, these types generally aren't going to do this with air.)We certainly cant ever fold this pre unless we have some sort of read that he only 3-bets AA, KK...

I think the c-call is fine, no need to donk it. He can some lesser hands but probably a lot more AK and AA.

On the turn, if you want to gii here then just jam it at him. check-jamming has literally no fold equity here. He only has to call another $4.5 to get a himself doubled. At these depths he never has wierd bakdoor flush stuff.

Certainly he is going to gii on the river, so if you want to keep going you might as well be the aggreser and (maybe, just maybe) have a glimmer of hope to fold out his AA winners and AK chops.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
I think that flatting pre is fine, you could 4-bet but i think this guy is going to be 3-betting pretty value heavey and isn't likely to fold. (his stats show that he is super loose and pretty passive, these types generally aren't going to do this with air.)We certainly cant ever fold this pre unless we have some sort of read that he only 3-bets AA, KK...

I think the c-call is fine, no need to donk it. He can some lesser hands but probably a lot more AK and AA.

On the turn, if you want to gii here then just jam it at him. check-jamming has literally no fold equity here. He only has to call another $4.5 to get a himself doubled. At these depths he never has wierd bakdoor flush stuff.

Certainly he is going to gii on the river, so if you want to keep going you might as well be the aggreser and (maybe, just maybe) have a glimmer of hope to fold out his AA winners and AK chops.

I would generally consider a 4bet with AKs. You don't want too much money going in with TPTK types of hands. The suited variant has increased NUT value and can become very strong by River, whereas AKo doesn't have that quality. Generally it adds 4%, but for large pots this is important, for example having TPTK with a 4 card NUT Flush draw on the FLOP. But against someone so loose passive I would not 4bet even with AKs.

He could have had QQ, JJ as well.
 
TenJack

TenJack

Rock Star
I think when he fires again OTT he rarely has QQ,JJ. He should be able to spot the overcard and realize he is going to get stacked.

As for 4-betting AK, i usually 4-bet more with AKo as it is a lesser holding and i want to fold people out pre.
 
8bod8

8bod8

Legend
As per your info: Villain is loose limping, but nit for 3bet.
No stats for bluffing.
PreFlop you could have tightened his range.
The raise on the turn should have set off you alarm bells, as half his range is AA or KK, both have you beat.

Always very difficult to fold a pair of K's or A's.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
As per your info: Villain is loose limping, but nit for 3bet.
No stats for bluffing.
PreFlop you could have tightened his range.
The raise on the turn should have set off you alarm bells, as half his range is AA or KK, both have you beat.

Always very difficult to fold a pair of K's or A's.

But I also said he was sitting at other tables where his 3bet was present. And it did set off my alarm bells. Would you fold the Turn?

But yeah his C-range is strong. But sometimes you wouldnt believe the goofiness of NL10 how people defend their 3bets post of flop. I think it was a tough spot. If I had AQ I would have folded straightaway.

It was just hard to fold to the 2nd barrel. Feels like giving up too easy with such a good hand. The problem is that we are committed calling the 2nd barrel. Tough spot. It think it's just inevitable and the tables will turn in situations like that.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
I think when he fires again OTT he rarely has QQ,JJ. He should be able to spot the overcard and realize he is going to get stacked.

As for 4-betting AK, i usually 4-bet more with AKo as it is a lesser holding and i want to fold people out pre.

But he also could have misread my second Check for weakness and attempted to steal it. I have been pushed by fish at these stake all in on the Turn with AK and he showed up with AQ. Stacked him. He was around 60bb so I had to call.
 
8bod8

8bod8

Legend
But I also said he was sitting at other tables where his 3bet was present. And it did set off my alarm bells. Would you fold the Turn?

But yeah his C-range is strong. But sometimes you wouldnt believe the goofiness of NL10 how people defend their 3bets post of flop. I think it was a tough spot. If I had AQ I would have folded straightaway.

It was just hard to fold to the 2nd barrel. Feels like giving up too easy with such a good hand. The problem is that we are committed calling the 2nd barrel. Tough spot. It think it's just inevitable and the tables will turn in situations like that.
Sadly I have to confirm, I would not have folded the turn, despite the alarm bells.
Serious leak in my game: not able to fold high pairs.:eek:
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
Sadly I have to confirm, I would not have folded the turn, despite the alarm bells.
Serious leak in my game: not able to fold high pairs.:eek:


:) It can be tough. I have folded TPTK many times. Even a set on a flushy straighty board on the river. But this one particular one was a handful for me.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

Wants to be added to your do-not-call list
Awards
1
CA
I ran into this kind of situation very recently. It's tough to fold top pair top kicker but you're risking 66 percent of your stack on this (TPTK) on a pretty dry looking board with little chance for improving. As good as it would feel to bust a bluff, you're very rarely looking at anything lower than KK playing against you here.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
I ran into this kind of situation very recently. It's tough to fold top pair top kicker but you're risking 66 percent of your stack on this (TPTK) on a pretty dry looking board with little chance for improving. As good as it would feel to bust a bluff, you're very rarely looking at anything lower than KK playing against you here.


I hear ya. You make a good case for sure. Regarding the board texture. It is Dry on the Flop. I Check. He can see this as an opportunity to take the pot right here by betting. The Turn card makes the Board two-tone with Broadway straight draws. AQspades, AJ, KQ have a shot there. He could have QQ JJ. I think I'm making a case as well. But according to his stats at that table I should have folded it.

AAs had 3 combos
KK had 1 combo
TT had 3 combos
And 66+22 4 combos (but not really counting those, as he wasn't such a wild 3better)
So there's 7 combos that have me crushed.

AQ 12 combos
QQ 6 combos
JJ 6 combos
KQ 12 combos (but will skip those)
There's 24 combos I am dominating.

I am starting to think its isn't such a clear cut fold at all. Higher hand sample would be needed.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

Wants to be added to your do-not-call list
Awards
1
CA
Yeah I don't think it's a matter of it being a clear cut fold but rather that of a disciplined fold given stack sizes and betting. Definitely not clear cut.
 
Kanetuck

Kanetuck

Legend
Awards
15
Ad4: :kh. What is the 4 for? I would write Ad,Kh. I am sure there must be a reason for writing it this way. Would someone mind explaining that to me? For example, ks: :6c4: :2h: is confusing to me.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

Wants to be added to your do-not-call list
Awards
1
CA
I think it is just a formatting issue.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
Yeah I don't think it's a matter of it being a clear cut fold but rather that of a disciplined fold given stack sizes and betting. Definitely not clear cut.


Yeah the double barrel is unsettling and deep stacks. The problem is the AF. AF2s can get crafty and certainly are capable of double "blank" barells on rare occasions. Man, if his AF was lower it would have been a no-brainer. 2 is such a bordeline. 2s are aggressive but always more on the value bet side. The Cbet range seems very solid even with the AF2. I should have folded it. But the question is when?:D

I deffo had to call the Flop bet. The only spot is to fold the Turn bet, but I don't see that practically possible. And once I would call that I'd be committed to see the SHDW when he would push me all-in.

I think one way would be call the Flop Cbet. But Donk the Turn to about 40%. If he raises, Hero folds.
 
D

Daithi

Rock Star
Ad4: :kh. What is the 4 for? I would write Ad,Kh. I am sure there must be a reason for writing it this way. Would someone mind explaining that to me? For example, ks: :6c4: :2h: is confusing to me.
Those are Cards Chat's codes for the card icons. Maybe they're not displaying properly on your device. In my original post Ad: doesn't display correctly either, so had to manually type Ad.
 
hugh blair

hugh blair

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
8
PartyGaming - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

SB: $13.63 (136.3 bb)
BB: $23.17 (231.7 bb)
Hero (UTG): $16.60 (166 bb) 17/14/12 (73hands)
MP: $10.15 (101.5 bb) 45/14/0 (60 hands)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.37 (123.7 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Ad :ad4: :kh:
Hero raises to $0.30, MP raises to $1.05, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25, 2 players) :ks: :6c4: :2h:
Hero checks, MP bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($5.45, 2 players) :10s:
Hero checks, MP bets $2.95, Hero raises to $13.95 and is all-in, MP calls $4.55 and is all-in

River: ($20.45, 2 players) :2c4:

Results: $20.45 pot ($0.00 rake)
Final Board: :ks: :6c4: :2h: :10s: :2c4:

MP shows :ah: :ac4:: (Two Pair, Aces and Twos)
(Pre 93%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows :ad4: :kh:: (Two Pair, Kings and Twos)
(Pre 7%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)

Hero wins $0.00
MP wins $19.45


I know villain has 0% 3bet on these 60 hands but at other tables he would be around 5-7. Party Poker doesn't allow aggregate stats.

I was ready to give up the hand postflop. But imo AK is too strong not to see the flop, unless it's an absolute NIT 3betting or fish who never 3bets. I was cautious though. Unfortunately I caught TPTK. At first I wanted to limit the size of the pot since they weren't suited. So I checked to see what he does. He takes a lead. My hand is too strong to fold. I am hoping he has a weaker ace or some distant fishy draw. I attempt to limit the pot again by checking, hoping he will check the Turn after a failed steal on the Flop. But he leads again. I am worried here since more draws have come up here now.

If I call, I see he will be pot committed. He's already on the borderline. My line of thinking is I must utilize some fold equity if he's on a draw. I beat the weaker Kings and missed AQs, aside from KT. His PFR isnt loose enough for K6 and K2. Sets are a problem and of course Aces too.

It was a risky move. But playing for stacks was inevitable, I think. If I called the Turn he would have pushed me all in on the River and I would have to fold without showdown.

What were my options? Fold to 3bet preflop? Fold to the Turn bet? His AF is 2.0. WTSD 50

Bit of a cooler daithi just call turn hope opponent does not put you all in on river keep chips or else find big fold on their 2.95 bet as best you can hope for is chop or weaker king or bluff and pick better spot which could be found good luck.:)
 
2

2Rockets2

Enthusiast
My 2 cents

I think the call pre was fine the flop check is your biggest mistake by checking you do not gain any new information. If you lead the flop for about 2.75 and he raises you can bring sets into the mix given his preflop play allowing you to get away. But kind of a cooler.
 
S

Sorin Iliescu

Rock Star
pre is ok i would say, then bet flop and turn and check/fold river. it's hard to fold though because you have a good hand on that board. as played, he did show strenght so you might find a way to fold
 
Top