I will ask again.. why do people call a pre-flop raise when they won't make one ?

[twizzybop]

WGLONION, had only put in 600 chips, 1/5 of his stack as opposed to TWizzy 600 chips 1/3 of his stack, pre flop.
He/she had not released 1200 chips on a pair of fives as you just stated.
He/she called a standard 4 times the BB raise with a pocket pair and close to 2 times his/her opponents stack......All pre-flop.

Now if wglonion was willing to put 1/5 of his chips in pre-flop then why didn't he do it in the 1st place. Again why call a pre-flop raise when you won't make one?

WGLONION flopped trip 5s, the rest of the hand/pot is not relevant/reletive to anything else you have indicated.
Actually it is..1/5 of a stack on a 1:8 chance to hit a set. Wrong odds to be calling 1/5 of your stack in hopes of hitting a set. So indeed the hand/pot is actually relevant to everything I have indicated.

I wonder if like TWIZZYBOP, you have trouble getting your head around this situation?

About the same I wonder.. Nah I will be nice... The whole call with pocket 5's vs any higher pair never mind the A,Q..Even against 66's the 55's only have an 18.39% to win, more the power to you. Yet lets go with a higher pair shall we? Not much better % against higher pockets then the 66's.

Are you really willing to risk being middle stacked that early on in the tournament hoping to hit a set, with at best a 19% to win?

Lets evaluate this now shall we..a 2.5:1 to call on and being nice here 5:1 chance to win against pockets that is. Yet not to mention with a and being nice again a 12% to hit the set. That sure is a lot of hoping and wishing on such a pretty big gamble because they didn't make a pre flop raise, but yet called one.

 

[jay88931]

WGLONION, had only put in 600 chips, 1/5 of his stack as opposed to TWizzy 600 chips 1/3 of his stack, pre flop.

Yes. The guy w/ 55 called 1/5 of his stack pre-flop. We don't disagree here.

He/she had not released 1200 chips on a pair of fives as you just stated.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I didn't say that someone had already put in 1200 chips.

4dogs said that with a low pair, you don't always need to flop a set to continue, and that sometimes a continuation bet takes the pot down. I was merely stating that while this is a viable option in some cases, I'm not sure it's an option when you've already committed 1/5 of your stack pre-flop. A continuation bet by of 1/2 the pot commits you for almost 1/2 your stack... which is where the 1200 figure comes from.

WGLONION flopped trip 5s, the rest of the hand/pot is not relevant/reletive to anything else you have indicated.

I realize he flopped trips... my post was in reply to 4dogs' hypothetical situation of NOT flopping trips.

I wonder if like TWIZZYBOP, you have trouble getting your head around this situation?

I'm not sure what point you think I'm not understanding. The guy called 1/5 of his stack pre-flop with 55. I've yet to see a reply as to why this was actually a good idea.

Your implied odds are worse than 5:1, making this a play with a negative long term EV. This was also pointed about by Bill_Hollorian earlier in the thread. I'm agreeing with his post.

I'm not saying you always lay down low pairs to a raise .. just that you need to make sure you're getting the implied odds to make the call.

 

[DESSERTLADY]

Twizzy,

If I am in late postion or even UTG I may limp in with something just to see who's left in the hand. Also it may way get some information from the other players what they might have. This is only the reason why I may call a preflop raise when I have already limped in the hand.

 

[bubbasbestbabe]

You check or don't raise to make it look like your not holding a good hand, in hopes that you'll draw out a weaker hand into betting the pot and taking them for all they've got. Thats my two cents. I use this technique, quite effective if you know how to play it.

This can also backfire quite a bit. You are now giving the opponent(s) a chance to get a free card. So your hand is no longer the best hand and your opponent(s) become the best hand on the free card they got to see. All because you were trying to get fancy.

This is the number one reason lousy players get those suck ass str8s and flushs. You gave them the chance.

 

[twizzybop]

The information was there.. The normal which most everyone does is a 3-5XBB raise with a top 10 pre-flop hand. That information became available to the pocket 55's the second I made the pre-flop bet.

Not with standing but would advocating the call with pocket 5's change if I had Pocket QQ's or even AA's?

 

[zinzan1000]

It concerns me when somebody opens a thread by asking a question, then does not seem to want any other answer or advice to be different from there own take on that situation.

Also with multiple posts made in respose to the thread, confusion rears its ugly head because some members dont take the time to QUOTE which post they are responding to.

It becomes very messy, and does not bode well for those that enjoy the forum and look forward to quality posts.

Getting back to the original post made by TWIZZYBOP with regards to why some players wont make a pre-flop raise but will call one.

There has been several posts from members who have taken the time to respond to your thread, each with there own take on the question posed.

I am sorry to note that you find it difficult to accept advice given by those that took the time to reply.

Although i respect your feelings and thoughts as an individual, i would have to say that if you are not prepared to look, listen, and learn from other members then i cant see a way forward for you.

Everybody has there own unique take on what is or isnt the right play in any given situation at a poker table, but in such forums as this one, the main reason for its being is that we can all learn from each other and try to improve our game.

Listening to advice given by others allows us try out new things when we find ourselves scratching our heads with a dilema such as the one you gave.

Surely by doing this we can improve our game and not fall into the trap of having tunnel vision every time we are confronted with the same situation.

I found that you felt as though every post made which differed from yours in some way was a personal attack on your game play and mind set.

This can not be further from the truth, and my ADVICE to you ( for the final time i might add regarding this thread ) is, look back at all the previous posts with an open mind, read them carefully, try to see if anything written is good advice regardless of whether it differs from your take or not.

As you can see, i have taken the time to write this post and if i were reading it and not writing it, i would be grateful to the poster.

zinzan1000 be lucky:hello:

 

[twizzybop]

Although i respect your feelings and thoughts as an individual, i would have to say that if you are not prepared to look, listen, and learn from other members then i cant see a way forward for you.

Isn't nothing to learn and to put this in more perspective now.
Pocket 55's can't, wouldn't, raise pre-flop. Yet he called something he can't, wouldn't do. Seems ironic to call on something you can't and wouldn't do yourself.

Then after calling with pocket 55's and hoping that he hit a 12% chance to hit trips. The hands after he now has to deal with the blinds, considering he is going to be in both of them. Not only has he hoped that he does hit trips on a 600 chip bet then he has at least without the blinds going up of using 750 in chips. If the blinds are going up that is now 900 chips taking away almost 1/3 of his stack just on 3 bets alone while risking 2/3 of those chips on a 19% chance of winning.

Now lets say of course the 55's don't hit trips. He now has to worry about anybody trying to steal his blinds.

The coming up of the blinds also has to be put into consideration especially if they do go up to 100/200. Now if the guy with 920 chips pushes while he is in the blind(s) he will now have to at least bet half his stack to protect his blind. Instead of betting 1/3 of his stack against the 920 in chips he would have to bet 1/2.

Not only did I have to think about my stack size in relative to the table, he also should have done the same.