I can't beat $10NL

B

bustme

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Ok, did well in my second session playing w the full $10 (100bbs) buy in.

I developed kind of a style where I play big hands aggressively preflop, then somewhat passive post flop (kind of a pot size control style) depending on number and nature of opponents.

Instant fold with that QQ.

It looks like you are on the right track......
 
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Deathwish238

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I don't quite see how you can be so sure of that? There are only 2 hands that would have had him beat no? And while yeah it does happen...you seem to be quite sure that it did happen

I'm just starting out and obviously have a lot to learn :)
 
Irexes

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Hello Deathwish, I presume you're the chap I was talking to last night on Stars :)

Welcome to CC

Rex
 
aliengenius

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I don't quite see how you can be so sure of that? There are only 2 hands that would have had him beat no? And while yeah it does happen...you seem to be quite sure that it did happen

I'm just starting out and obviously have a lot to learn :)

The guy only plays less than 17% of his hands, and only raises about 6%. This is 1. a RE-raise, which presumably is an even narrower range than the initial 6% raise range, 2. an all-in, which presumably is the strongest hands in that narrower range.
 
C

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The only argument against him having AA or KK there is that pushing all in isn't a good way of making money from it. But I've seen some terrible play at this level so I wouldn't be suprised if that's what he had..
 
robwhufc

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aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius: wow
aliengenius is sitting out
aliengenius has timed out
aliengenius folds
Uncalled bet of $13.55 returned to airzor
aliengenius has returned
:(

Timeout folding? Yuck.

I agree with your analysis though, this is 2 hands to me, JJ or AK. If i'm adding more hands to possible holdings, it's 10 10 and 9 9, not AA or KK - he doesn't want to make any tricky post flop decisions. I'm folding QQ (and KK) when it's raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and it's obvious that your opponent is giving little thought to the hand apart from "how can I extract the most from this guy without making him fold?" (and i've got enough left to make it worth folding).

Call for me, but if your little numbers said different then.........
 
aliengenius

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:(

Timeout folding? Yuck.

I agree with your analysis though, this is 2 hands to me, JJ or AK. If i'm adding more hands to possible holdings, it's 10 10 and 9 9, not AA or KK - he doesn't want to make any tricky post flop decisions. I'm folding QQ (and KK) when it's raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and it's obvious that your opponent is giving little thought to the hand apart from "how can I extract the most from this guy without making him fold?" (and i've got enough left to make it worth folding).

Call for me, but if your little numbers said different then.........

I don't know.... this is $10NL !
 
Egon Towst

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The guy only plays less than 17% of his hands, and only raises about 6%. This is 1. a RE-raise, which presumably is an even narrower range than the initial 6% raise range, 2. an all-in, which presumably is the strongest hands in that narrower range.

My reasoning exactly. The guy has AA, you can bet your mortgage on it, and this.......

.... this is $10NL !

.....is why he is not smart enough to disguise the strength of his hand.
 
aliengenius

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Ok update:
I have cleared the $75 on FT, and it only cost me $57.20 to do it :(. So I'm ahead overall, but still can't beat $10NL. I got killed today, -$26ish.

Here is the graph for just over 9k hands, about 41 hrs of play since the start of the month.

10nl

Overall I am down $102 over 11k hands. Unreal.
 
WVHillbilly

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Ok update:
I have cleared the $75 on FT, and it only cost me $57.20 to do it :(. So I'm ahead overall, but still can't beat $10NL. I got killed today, -$26ish.

Here is the graph for just over 9k hands, about 41 hrs of play since the start of the month.

So with the bonus you actually made about 40 cents per hour. Isn't "free" money great?
 
aliengenius

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Well, here are the stats, if anyone can pick out a problem I would much appreciate it:

Stats1
Stats2
Stats3
 
NineLions

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Hmm, won a SD is less that 50% which is not a good sign unless you're winning a lot of stacks when you do win. And to me that looks like too many check-raises for this level. Players at this level don't understand what you mean when you check-raise them.


Maybe too much playing from the blinds as well, though a lot are probably pot odds determined, given the limping/min-raising that takes place. Just my 0.02.
 
aliengenius

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Hmm, won a SD is less that 50% which is not a good sign unless you're winning a lot of stacks when you do win. And to me that looks like too many check-raises for this level. Players at this level don't understand what you mean when you check-raise them.


Maybe too much playing from the blinds as well, though a lot are probably pot odds determined, given the limping/min-raising that takes place. Just my 0.02.


Well, yeah, I am a losing player at this level, so won $ at SD is not high enough. That's sort of redundant.

63 out of 9,658 is too many check raises?

Yeah, there are often odds to call from the bb-- usually someone min-raises or something ridiculous.

The sick thing is, if I five "stack" hands hand gone the other way I would be even. It just doesn't seem like I'm stacking the donks enough other times to make up for the one/two outer beats for some reason...
 
4Aces

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Have you ever thought about playing 6max AG? The tables are a lot fishier imo.
 
WVHillbilly

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You're probably seeing too many hands through to SD for how loose you are playing. I also think you may actually be cbetting too often for this level (because we rarely have only 1 or 2 opponents) and losing more when one of them plays back at you as a result.
 
NineLions

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Well, yeah, I am a losing player at this level, so won $ at SD is not high enough. That's sort of redundant.

63 out of 9,658 is too many check raises?

It's not that it's not high enough. I datamined $25NL FTP one day and one mulittabler did quite nicely with 43% won at SD, but, he stacked a few people when he did win and was up 12 BB/100 over 1,100 hands.


And I don't know for sure that that is too many check raises, but I'd be curious to know how those hands worked out for you. I just think at that level that you're talking in a language that the players don't understand. But, I'd be curious to know if that was working for you there.
 
aliengenius

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Here's a check raise gone wrong:

fulltiltpoker Game #5213742808: Table American Pacific - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:10:42 ET - 2008/02/11
Seat 1: balz7 ($6.80)
Seat 2: MilaMonster ($4.80)
Seat 3: aliengenius ($14.75)
Seat 4: Balu06 ($3.50)
Seat 5: murderotica ($14.05)
Seat 6: Clazziquai ($17.20)
Seat 7: sparta338 ($5.95)
Seat 8: maxx3971 ($1.70)
Seat 9: ImreBarta ($1.60)
MilaMonster posts the small blind of $0.05
aliengenius posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [Jc Jh]
Balu06 folds
murderotica has 15 seconds left to act
murderotica raises to $0.20
Clazziquai folds
sparta338 folds
maxx3971 folds
ImreBarta folds
balz7 calls $0.20
MilaMonster folds
aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [9h 3c 7s]
aliengenius checks
murderotica bets $0.30
balz7 folds
aliengenius raises to $14.55, and is all in
murderotica calls $13.55, and is all in
aliengenius shows [Jc Jh]
murderotica shows [9s Td]
Uncalled bet of $0.70 returned to aliengenius
*** TURN *** [9h 3c 7s] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [9h 3c 7s 5h] [Tc]
aliengenius shows a pair of Jacks
murderotica shows two pair, Tens and Nines
murderotica wins the pot ($26.35) with two pair, Tens and Nines
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $28.35 | Rake $2
Board: [9h 3c 7s 5h Tc]
Seat 1: balz7 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: MilaMonster (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: aliengenius (big blind) showed [Jc Jh] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: Balu06 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: murderotica showed [9s Td] and won ($26.35) with two pair, Tens and Nines
Seat 6: Clazziquai didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: sparta338 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: maxx3971 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: ImreBarta didn't bet (folded)
 
jaketrevvor

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Ok, that's played yuckily. Firstly you have to raise your big hands pf otherwise they have extremely little value due to outfloppage in multi-way pots. What was your reasoning for flat calling (probably something about not swelling the pot oop, but if you don't you're in an even worse one as their ranges are so wide)? Build the pot and get it HU or take it down right there plz - get as much money in while you're ahead. Secondly, wth was the ubershove? You're just giving your stack to hands that have you beat and scaring off the ones that you do (not in this case but most of the time). You cold be trying to look like a donkmaniac and get a loose call from a 9 but I still think you're chasing off value from most 7s and 9s most of the time. And even if you do get called your hand is very vulnerable (as we saw above).
 
aliengenius

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Ok, that's played yuckily. Firstly you have to raise your big hands pf otherwise they have extremely little value due to outfloppage in multi-way pots. What was your reasoning for flat calling (probably something about not swelling the pot oop, but if you don't you're in an even worse one as their ranges are so wide)? Build the pot and get it HU or take it down right there plz - get as much money in while you're ahead. Secondly, wth was the ubershove? You're just giving your stack to hands that have you beat and scaring off the ones that you do (not in this case but most of the time). You cold be trying to look like a donkmaniac and get a loose call from a 9 but I still think you're chasing off value from most 7s and 9s most of the time. And even if you do get called your hand is very vulnerable (as we saw above).

The guy was a total maniac... completely read dependent play there, I had been waiting and waiting to stack this guy. Trust me that this isn't my standard line here. The late limper is the other idiot at the table, playing almost every hand (but not as aggressively as murder). Anyway, neither of these guys is going to fold to a standard preflop raise, and I wanted to wait for a safe flop to get my money in or get out fairly cheaply. I don't want the lead in the hand vs. two opponents out of position, where I will be tempted to c-bet, and with a high possibility of getting played back at and making a bad fold.
 
Cheetah

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The guy was a total maniac... completely read dependent play there, I had been waiting and waiting to stack this guy. Trust me that this isn't my standard line here. The late limper is the other idiot at the table, playing almost every hand (but not as aggressively as murder). Anyway, neither of these guys is going to fold to a standard preflop raise, and I wanted to wait for a safe flop to get my money in or get out fairly cheaply. I don't want the lead in the hand vs. two opponents out of position, where I will be tempted to c-bet, and with a high possibility of getting played back at and making a bad fold.

Nothing easier than to take $$$ from these levels. I used to think otherwise until I realized that I wasn't adaptig properly to their attrocous (but trivial) play.

Just wait for a set or better, and stack them. Even my dentist is more complex on me! (But I once bit him:))
 
M

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I think you and I have the same problem AG. And I think it is because we prefer tourney's. Perhaps we prefer tourneys because we have never had success at ring. Perhaps we never had success at ring because we never really studied ring.

Just a guess.

agree, i think thats the point.
i cant handle ringgames.
if i win a few dollar, in the next moment i loose much more.

ps:
sorry my english isnt the best.

mac°
 
aliengenius

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I can't win. Another fking $32 gone today. This is BS. I have to be able to beat $10NL.
 
jaketrevvor

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imo record a session and post the video. Getting some 10nl rouinders to look at some of your specific situational play I think could be very beneficial.
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Have you ever thought about playing 6max AG? The tables are a lot fishier imo.


I have been playing a lot of $10 tables and this IMO is the way to go if you wish to make money at them.
 
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