How often do you bluff?

-Phil Ivey27

-Phil Ivey27

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How often do you guys bluff playing cash games?

Sometimes I bluff a little more than I should, although alot of my money comes from taking pots I shouldn't be taking.

Do you guys bluff as a living, play like a nit and throw in the occasional bluff, or don't bluff at all at low stakes because many times they don't know how to fold.

I know this is very general and it greatly depends on the opponent and his style of play, but even so.
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

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You make more money playing for value than bluffing in cash games, it's the opposite in tournaments.

My bluff range is about 30% of my range when in late position, although I don't necessarily continue with all of it and a lot of my value range turns into bluffs.
OOP the only time I start a bluff pre-flop is in blind defence and for that that BTN or CO have to be stealing pretty wide.

I also blind steal relentlessly which could be viewed as bluffing.

Post-flop, it really depends on the SPR, if I'm OOP and the SPR is low then very frequently, if I pick up say 5 outs, with an SPR of >3 my bluff % is really high, similarly if the SPR is 10 I'm basically never bluffing OOP unless I'm against a complete idiot because there's too much they can do.
There's also stuff like cbets and betting draws, which is just so standard that I do it a lot.
When IP I've got more bluff hands in my range but I'm not really bluffing that much, or at least, it's not about running big bluffs, it's frequently a combination of factors, say I float on the flop then it's usually because I've got some outs as well as the chance he gives up. Also, usually I'm not actually raising much post-flop when IP (betting a fair bit when checked to though) purely because of SPR, when OOP I'll influence the SPR to be low so it will favour a lot of bluffs and IP it's high to favour multi-street play which frequently doesn't help with fold equity.

If you're talking though about situations where I have no outs and am making a large bluff, not very often. Maybe once or twice per 1k hands.


Hopefully all of that made sense... if not, I'm going to default to the answer I dislike: It depends.
 
djkismet

djkismet

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i dont play many cash games but my bluffing is rare more of just continuation bets early on. i dont like to steal chips till the antes hit or the sng is 2 or 3 from the money
 
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paumarhas

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i use to only semi bluff. but read somewhere that i'd never make it if i didn't bluff more.
so now i bluff whenever i can get away with it. hahahaha :knuddel: :argh:
 
dj11

dj11

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I been here a pretty long time, and seen this question asked maybe a few times a year, and have yet to get a believable answer.

In other words, every answer you get here should probably be considered a bluff........
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

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i dont play many cash games but my bluffing is rare more of just continuation bets early on. i dont like to steal chips till the antes hit or the sng is 2 or 3 from the money

With 10-12bb stacks there is no valid argument for not bluff shoving, a lot.

i use to only semi bluff. but read somewhere that i'd never make it if i didn't bluff more.
so now i bluff whenever i can get away with it. hahahaha :knuddel: :argh:

Seriously, don't over estimate bluffing in cash games. Play for value. There is more money in playing for value, it's not even close.
Think about this subject a lot, it will improve your winrate dramatically.

I been here a pretty long time, and seen this question asked maybe a few times a year, and have yet to get a believable answer.

In other words, every answer you get here should probably be considered a bluff........

Why?
You're maybe right if we use the same usernames to play poker and people know who we are and play reasonably high stakes but most people either play small enough stakes with big enough player fields that it doesn't matter or are relatively annonymous.

FWIW, most of us (me included) have completely idiotic ranges which we'll change before long after realising the error of our ways, and nothing we currently know is that valuable that it's worth being secretive about. Open discussion is more +EV, imo.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Seriously, don't over estimate bluffing in cash games. Play for value. There is more money in playing for value, it's not even close.
Think about this subject a lot, it will improve your winrate dramatically.

Just what do you mean by that? Play nitty? Don't double barrel with air when you think villain didn't hit the board too hard?

I see people cbetting once and giving up all the time then slowing down / giving up, it's really exploitable.

I think generally you should bluff enough to give you a very aggressive image without being called too much in the process. After all a 3/4 pot bluff only has to work more than 43% of the time to be profitable...and you are creating action to get your value hands paid off.
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

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I'm not saying don't bluff, I'm saying don't over do it.
 
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Skaplun

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Just what do you mean by that? Play nitty? Don't double barrel with air when you think villain didn't hit the board too hard?

I see people cbetting once and giving up all the time then slowing down / giving up, it's really exploitable.

I think generally you should bluff enough to give you a very aggressive image without being called too much in the process. After all a 3/4 pot bluff only has to work more than 43% of the time to be profitable...and you are creating action to get your value hands paid off.

Cbetting is not bluffing. Cbetting is just continuing your bet from before the flop, I'll C-bet with 2-3 on the flop, after all my original bet might feel lonely ;)

But seriously now, wether or not your opponent has hit the flop too hard is not a consideration, some villains would not let go of A3o on a monotone AKJT board, that also happens. you bet with a purpose in mind and a plan of what you want to do flop, turn, and river.

Bluffing in a tourny is usually using some backwards aggression, when not playing as the original raiser or even being the original raiser and giving up the lead to opponent and then putting him in a difficult spot at a later street.

I'm still new to MTTs and suck horribly at SNGs (seriously I'd rather play with my snot than an SNG. BORRING!)

in the micros you never bluff, EVER. when you're bluffing=losing.
Value bet relentleessly with the right holdings against weaker hands.

btw, this greatly depends if you want to play small pot or big pot poker. I prefer small pot poker so I keep my PFR and vpip at about the same number.
Big pot poker generally requires a wider VPIP and lower PFR to allow for big pots to be built around far bigger holdings than TPTK etc.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Cbetting is not bluffing.

Well I guess we have a different definition of bluffing then. I thought bluffing was trying to win the pot when you think you have the worst hand

in the micros you never bluff, EVER. when you're bluffing=losing.

I know I'll get hammered for it, but I strongly disagree. Bluffing can be very profitable at micros esp. in large pots. Or do you assume micros=fish with 60% vpip?

..
 
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davem86

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How often do you guys bluff playing cash games?

Sometimes I bluff a little more than I should, although alot of my money comes from taking pots I shouldn't be taking.

Do you guys bluff as a living, play like a nit and throw in the occasional bluff, or don't bluff at all at low stakes because many times they don't know how to fold.

I know this is very general and it greatly depends on the opponent and his style of play, but even so.

For some odd reason I Think online players call with way 2 many hands...some are succesful and some are not.

But you def have to bluff a little its a part of the game, but so is folding and no1 does it so I try not to bluff alot!

Id say my game...YouTube- Fort Minor-Remember the name Lyrics
 
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Skaplun

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whether or not you cbet should depend solely on the board and not on trying to put villain on a range based on his calling your raise prf. if you can put him on a hand from calling your raise then you are better at poker than god.

How do you define bluffing?

Lets say villain has Ako, you know he has AA and you have TJs

flop is: 9s 8d As

You have about 57% equity, would you bet here? Is it a bluff? villain has 43% equity, is his bet a bluff?

How would you play that hand?

I'm not brilliant either, this questions bother me as well.
 
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AUPhoenix

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Bluff

Bluff, I would never Scarlett. Semi-Bluff like drawing to an open ended straight or flush about 50% of the time. I really like doing it if I have gotten on a little hot streak and won several hands in a close time frame.:)
 
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crowhui

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i bluff quite often,and often found myself bluffing in the wrong timing or got drawn out even bluff with the best hand...that's why trying to reduce it now..
 
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BigBelle

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I bluff only a small percentage because I play micro stakes and will get called down by any pair. Most of my bluffs that work are on the turn while I have position.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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whether or not you cbet should depend solely on the board and not on trying to put villain on a range based on his calling your raise prf. if you can put him on a hand from calling your raise then you are better at poker than god.

How do you define bluffing?

Lets say villain has Ako, you know he has AA and you have TJs

flop is: 9s 8d As

You have about 57% equity, would you bet here? Is it a bluff? villain has 43% equity, is his bet a bluff?

How would you play that hand?

I'm not brilliant either, this questions bother me as well.

I didn't mean putting him on a hand exactly, but on a range of hands, and from how well he connects with that flop you should generally have an idea if you're better or worse. The action post-flop will give more clues as well.

In that case we don't put him on AA exactly, we put him on AA, AK o/s (all combos), probably AQ and Ax depending on the villain type and pre-flop action.

We are still ahead of that range even if only ~52%, but to me that 2% edge means we should try to get all our chips in.

It would not be a bluff since we are the favorite anyway. His bet would not be a bluff either because he believes he has the best hand, and bluffing is always an intentional act.

Remember that equity holds for all-ins so we need all the money in now, because if we don't improve on the turn then we become a big underdog and we went to take the flop odds to see the river card, which is +EV and not the turn odds which is -EV.

So if he bets I could see a shove being a good thing, I don't normally do it but hey I probably should start. Plus it's great for your table image!

I'm no genius, I have huge leaks etc. etc. but I guess thinking about things without the heat of action can help my game...
 
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