How to beat nl$10, this isnt a book......

tenbob

tenbob

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So be kind. (Full Ring Players only)

Background : With a $1,000+ BR most of it winning from sit and go's and MTTs I decided after fiddleing around with nl50 I decided to build myself a nl ring game, starting on nl5 and moving to nl10. Im gonna call nl5 really an non-entity, I got enough out of that level within 1K hands to move to nl10. Here was where the grind started.

First off, this is the level where ppl that win money from freeroll generally start off, its where people recover after taking shots at higher limits, and its where you find beginning players. You also find the occasional decent player (like I was at that level) learning the game, and learning some decent concepts.

There are some very improantant things to be aware of on these tables.

1) ALWAYS buy in for the full amount if you want to use some of these tips

2) ALWAYS attempt to see a cheap flop with all small pairs from all postions, even if it means calling a raise. Try not to get squeezed, and be aware if there is many players to a flop youll need to improve to a set or better to continue post flop. If you flop a set, then lead it, bet out, dont get tricky with it.

3) Playing AK/AQ, raise from all postions, only c-bet a missed flop against a single opponent, be perpared to check/fold missed flops against aggression.

4) AJ/A10/KQ/KJ and other marginal hands need to be raised with postion, dump these hands routinely from EP, again only c-bet a missed flop against a single opponent.

5) AA/KK/QQ Get as much money in pre-flop as is possible, dont get tricky, re-raise enough to pot committ yourself with AA/KK if the pot is raised ahead of you. Be aware that if you have AA on an KK2 board and your facing resistance, your beat, fold.

6) Dont bluff, semi-bluff. bluffing is a waste of time as is fancy plays, if your gonna bluff make sure its when your holding a nut flush draw or an oesd.

7) Dont check raise, lead your monster hands. People on nl10 assume that if you lead a KKA flop with KQ that you dont have the goods, where as if you check-raise they always give you the credit (funny but true).

A lot of this stuff is extremly transparent on higher limits, but using a basic strategy like the one above will help to increase your winrate. Remember flopped monsters need to have you stack in the middle, think of all them times that your massive bets were called with unimproved overpairs, why think that they wont do the same when you flop the nut flush.

Comments welcome. BTW this an unthought out thread, 10 mins work, critize at will. :)
 
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bw07507

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Nice info TB, Ive never really had much success at 10NL. I try to bluff a lot when I think people are weak and end up getting called down a lot.

One thing Im curious about. What do you think about suited connectors and Ax suited in mid to late position. Will u limp with these sorts of hands or not?
 
Jack Daniels

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Nice thread tb. + rep. I think anyone that plays the 10NL will find your points useful. Do you plan on putting something like this together for other levels you play at?
 
Tammy

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This is awesome TB. It makes me want to go try it out. :)

One question--on #6, is osed supposed to be oesd (for open-ended straight draw)?
 
crancko

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Great post, TB! Made me want to have a go at ring games again right away. The hand below is the result. First hand played, btw :)

(Yes, I should have bet harder post flop. Wankers will get killed at the tables).

PokerStars Game #11265581464: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/08/02 - 03:27:46 (ET) Table 'Siebohme' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: POET86 ($1.50 in chips)
Seat 2: crancko ($3 in chips)
Seat 3: Schutti73 ($5.27 in chips)
Seat 4: insanemetal ($3.14 in chips)
Seat 5: Sneakers ($1.93 in chips)
Seat 6: elcid25 ($2.20 in chips)
Seat 7: PiS.AA ($5.38 in chips)
Seat 8: LarryBaar ($5.74 in chips)
Seat 9: Jack Jantzen ($6.40 in chips)

Sneakers: posts small blind $0.01
elcid25: posts big blind $0.02
crancko: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to crancko [8h Kh]
PiS.AA: folds
LarryBaar: folds
LarryBaar leaves the table
Jack Jantzen: calls $0.02
POET86: folds
crancko: checks
Schutti73: folds
insanemetal: folds
Sneakers: folds
elcid25: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 8s Kd] (Wibedidudableedingyeah!)
elcid25: checks
Jack Jantzen: checks
crancko: bets $0.04
elcid25: calls $0.04
Jack Jantzen: calls $0.04
*** TURN *** [Jc 8s Kd] 9♥
elcid25: checks
Jack Jantzen: bets $0.25
crancko: raises $0.25 to $0.50
elcid25: folds
Jack Jantzen: raises $2.50 to $3 (i'm going: hehe, nice start)
crancko: calls $2.44 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Jc 8s Kd 9h] 9♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Jack Jantzen: shows [Tc Qc] (a straight, Nine to King)
crancko: mucks hand
Jack Jantzen collected $5.77 from pot
crancko leaves the table (to go sulk in the long empty hallways)

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.07 | Rake $0.30
Board [Jc 8s Kd 9h 9c]
Seat 1: POET86 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: crancko mucked [8h Kh]
Seat 3: Schutti73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: insanemetal (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Sneakers (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: elcid25 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 7: PiS.AA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: LarryBaar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Jack Jantzen showed [Tc Qc] and won ($5.77) with a straight, Nine to King
 
pezjb

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Ok, well I'm sure you would not have got him off his hand, but you need to bet the pot at least on the flop. Make him pay for his draw.
 
tenbob

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Nice info TB, Ive never really had much success at 10NL. I try to bluff a lot when I think people are weak and end up getting called down a lot.

One thing Im curious about. What do you think about suited connectors and Ax suited in mid to late position. Will u limp with these sorts of hands or not?

The reason i didnt put limping with suited connectors and Ax suited, is that peoples invariable start opening up their range as they play, and all of a sudden playing Ax off sudden start getting into trouble.


Nice thread tb. + rep. I think anyone that plays the 10NL will find your points useful. Do you plan on putting something like this together for other levels you play at?

More that likely JD, I wanna play a few hundred hands at nl$10 and grab a few examples here first.

Great post, TB! Made me want to have a go at ring games again right away. The hand below is the result. First hand played, btw :)

(Yes, I should have bet harder post flop. Wankers will get killed at the tables).

PokerStars Game #11265581464: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/08/02 - 03:27:46 (ET) Table 'Siebohme' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: POET86 ($1.50 in chips)
Seat 2: crancko ($3 in chips)
Seat 3: Schutti73 ($5.27 in chips)
Seat 4: insanemetal ($3.14 in chips)
Seat 5: Sneakers ($1.93 in chips)
Seat 6: elcid25 ($2.20 in chips)
Seat 7: PiS.AA ($5.38 in chips)
Seat 8: LarryBaar ($5.74 in chips)
Seat 9: Jack Jantzen ($6.40 in chips)

Sneakers: posts small blind $0.01
elcid25: posts big blind $0.02
crancko: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to crancko [8h Kh]
PiS.AA: folds
LarryBaar: folds
LarryBaar leaves the table
Jack Jantzen: calls $0.02
POET86: folds
crancko: checks
Schutti73: folds
insanemetal: folds
Sneakers: folds
elcid25: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 8s Kd] (Wibedidudableedingyeah!)
elcid25: checks
Jack Jantzen: checks
crancko: bets $0.04
elcid25: calls $0.04
Jack Jantzen: calls $0.04
*** TURN *** [Jc 8s Kd] 9♥
elcid25: checks
Jack Jantzen: bets $0.25
crancko: raises $0.25 to $0.50
elcid25: folds
Jack Jantzen: raises $2.50 to $3 (i'm going: hehe, nice start)
crancko: calls $2.44 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Jc 8s Kd 9h] 9♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Jack Jantzen: shows [Tc Qc] (a straight, Nine to King)
crancko: mucks hand
Jack Jantzen collected $5.77 from pot
crancko leaves the table (to go sulk in the long empty hallways)

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.07 | Rake $0.30
Board [Jc 8s Kd 9h 9c]
Seat 1: POET86 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: crancko mucked [8h Kh]
Seat 3: Schutti73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: insanemetal (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Sneakers (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: elcid25 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 7: PiS.AA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: LarryBaar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Jack Jantzen showed [Tc Qc] and won ($5.77) with a straight, Nine to King

This hand played out terribly, youve flopped a nice hand out of position, you need to bet more on the flop at these limits, to see where you stand. The flat calls should alarm you at the very least. On the turn you get rasied which is a card that now has filled all the straight draws. Tricky fold but your only beating a bluff. Dont make crying calls, take your time over your hands and see if your still ahead. Look at the board, out him on a range, how did the 9 help him. Was he playing K9 ? Q10 ? 99 ?
 
robwhufc

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PokerStars Game #11265581464: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/08/02 - 03:27:46 (ET) Table 'Siebohme' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: crancko ($3 in chips)
Point 1 was "Always buy-in for max amount" - maximum buy-in wouldhave been $5 here wouldn't it? ;)

One observation and one question Tenbob. Observation is, if this is a guide for beginners, you need to explain terms like "c-bet" and "oesd" as a load of members wont know what these are.

Question is, what sort of hourly return do you look for when playing $10NL?
 
tenbob

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One observation and one question Tenbob. Observation is, if this is a guide for beginners, you need to explain terms like "c-bet" and "oesd" as a load of members wont know what these are.

Good point Rob, ill do that later on today. If people are unsure in the meantime there is always a search function.

As for hourly return, that obviously depends on how many hands per hour your playing. I managed 23bb/100 playing 4 tables when I was playing nl$10. Flaffing around with small bets a lot of the time is wasteful, unless the play has changed drastically, lots of people will call off their stack with TPTK type hands on obvious boards, hence the recomended strategy above. Its by no means definative, but its a start.
 
Debi

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Good advice - I might get to catch you in some games while you are wading in our kiddie pool lol.

I am anxious to hear what you say about $25NL when you get there. I do okay at both of these levels but need some advice on $25. (didn't realize I needed some at $10 til I read this post lol)
 
crancko

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The weak bet and the warning signals - yes, i missed the whole crappola. Went in there on a spur of enthusiasm having read this post thinking: "Bout time i return to those ring game mf's".

As for the amount, I dragged the available amount with me in there. I dont trust BRM that much, think it distracts me from playing poker. So all the bonus, rake return, gimme a point and a nice hat intricacies interest me as much as a three legged buffalo in a china shop.

What does interest me is getting better at NL Holdem. And making fumbled attempts like this one is always good for attention grabbing - my own attention that is. And well, to be honest I had a good laugh as well - while nursing the dent in my forehead and trying to glue my computer table back together :)
 
JimboJim

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Good post...never play tricky poker but always be ready for someone else to play tricks. Slowplaying is everywhere so if you get check-raised it's usually best to fold unless you have a read.

Also, $10NL is mixed with decent players and complete morons. Keep an eye on who is who and USE YOUR NOTES! Once you play a lot with someone you can get almost un-breakable reads. Until then just play solid poker and use your cards to their fullest.
 
crancko

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Damn, I suddenly remembered the old saying: "If you can't spot the fish..."
 
Egon Towst

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Nice post, Tenbob. :)

I play $25nl and (mostly) $50NL in pretty much the same style, and the great majority of your suggestions are equally applicable there. Probably the only real difference is that I widen out my hand selection quite a lot from late position. Players in those games are apt to be a bit more observant and (as you said yourself) one can`t be too transparent at higher limits.
 
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j-peso83

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nice strat. but will it work in like 1/2 or 2/5
 
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jeffred1111

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I'd wager (my whole BR) that it won't work playing 1/2 or 2/5 online as many of the people who play there do it for a living (or at least a secondary income) so they study their game and use suboptimal plays to achieve optimal results (ie. deception). If you have to ask such a question, you should ask yourself if you're ready to play online in these games.

Live is another matter entirely as games tend to be a lot softer.
 
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shallow33

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in a 6 handed table would it be ok to raise from good position and limp from poor positions with any blackjack hands?
 
NineLions

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Very nice, TB.

Did you want to add something about the invariable situation of being in late position with 2-5 limpers ahead? This is pretty common at these levels. When to raise, how much to raise, when to limp.

And also, what about not calling raises with potentially dominated hands, trying to stay out of trouble.
 
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