Is getting it in with pocket pairs bad?

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Charms1995

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Hi guys this is my first post on here. Anyways I recently started picking up some micro stake cash games. I find myself currently being profitable but struggle in some spots I feel would be natural in a tournament setting. Keep in mind that I'm playing a .05/.10 game with only ~$5.00 on the table. I find myself in awkward spots were people would push all there chips in (normally $5.00+) and I would have some decent hands. Decent hands being either pockets 10-Aces or AK AQ. I find myself folding most hands that are not Queens or better. Thoughts on if I should call off slightly wider or if you think folding these type of hands are actually the correct play. Looking forward to some good input guys!
 
vinnie

vinnie

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What are their stack sizes and pre-flop actions leading up to this point? How much money do you have left? Are there any other callers? Is there anyone left to act? Do you have notes/stats on the player(s) still active in the hand?

So, let's answer those questions. Then we can put our opponents on a range. Then we can compare our equity against that range with our pot odds and see if it makes sense to get 50xbb in with the hand we're holding. I'm willing to bet it's not (except in rare cases and with hands you wouldn't be folding anyway).

The 10NL games aren't exactly known for light 4-bet shoving. It usually is a hand that you're not doing well against. Heck, I wouldn't even be getting AQ in against most of them, unless I have seen the guy shoving some really light crap in the recent past and suspect he's tilting. These players are generally too passive, and not too aggressive. Even calling with T-T, I suspect we're doing well if we find ourselves flipping and not in serious trouble.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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As vinnie says, it depends on many things.

As a general rule the fewer people in the hand or left to act, and the looser villain is, the more likely I am to call.
 
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Dan Lucas

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Depending on you bankroll, your cash game strategies are much different than tournament because you can always just buy back in. Vinnie has the right idea. You need some information about the other players tendencies and the type of play at the table before you can really determine an optimal strategy. Like Vinnie says, if you know a player is tilting, take your chance. There are no guarantees, but in the long run you probably stay profitable being cautious but aggressive on a tight table ( you can steal until you get hand caught in cookie jar because you know opponent has a hand when he plays) and playing premium hands on a loose table because you know the donks will get it all-in light, but won't fold to bluffs when they have bottom pair.
 
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joe777

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Depends much on villains tendencies and their range, because some players do shove with wider range,so you need more info on your opponents.
 
George Lewis

George Lewis

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In a cash game I would be less likely to call off in general but in both versions of the game I prefer to be the guy making the other dude call.
 
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Sidetracked

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I will usually get it in with QQ, KK, AA, AK and sometimes AQ (that's very dependent on the player I'm against)
 
MattRyder

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Everything depends, right? I just watched a 1000NL hand where $1,065 changed hands. 44 vs. AK. 44 hit a full house on the flop. AK hit two pair on the turn & river. Had 44 open-shoved pre-folp I doubt that AK would have called. However, as played, AK bet every street (including a 3-bet pre-flop on the btn) with 44 just check/calling. In the end AK shoved on the river and lost $1,065 for his efforts.

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coachlary69

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I agree, player tendencies are very important. I just played against a player in a 0.02/.04 cash game and I noticed that the player to my left kept calling with everything so I tagged him as a calling station and waited for the right opportunity and my Aces beat his pair of 4's. Even though he was on my left anytime it was folded around to me I was in the pot with almost any hand simply because I knew he was going to be in every pot.
 
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ritehere

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Look the way that I see it, getting pocket rockets is the wet dream of all poker players. But as for me at the live tables this pocket pair has put me in a lot of the cashes that I have had. However, online I am only hitting about 55% of the time that I do well the other 45% of the time I either get out drawn or run into a donk that just gets lucky.
 
MattRyder

MattRyder

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I watched another 1000NL hand yesterday. AA vs AK. Stacks went in the middle pre-flop, they ran it twice, AA lost twice.
 
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freestocks

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It also depends on how much you want to gamble.
 
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rhombus

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Maybe something like chart below, obviously you can add other criteria for Pairs or Aggression although basically the more aggressive the more likely your pair will be good especially if you get it in first :)
 

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shanest

shanest

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as others have said need more info to put our opponents on a narrower ranger.
I find at the lower stakes the big stacks being much more aggressive against the short stacks. As you say you are only buyin in for 50 blinds and folding jacks downward pre you are def getting abused
 
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GWU73

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It is very rarely correct to get it in with a small pair pre flop. QQ+ AK is pretty solid, and even the QQ is not awesome if you are playing a good player. There are times when calling off, or shoving a small pair can be ok, but you will never be a big favorite with them.
 
sandund

sandund

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People pushing all in with almost anything, even on FT. Pocket of pair is not good hand vs donk players, but vs good players can be.
 
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redmast

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Before playing you need to look at the opponents. Always try to tag someone and how to play. In the future, it is useful. Each has its own style of play
 
frnandoh

frnandoh

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BR
because of this its extremelly necessary to make a good bankroll management, to your A game being not negatively influenced by a bad situation extra table. (sorry but my english is horrorible)
 
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karl coakley

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It depends on how much gamble you have in you. To me shove and pray really isn't poker. Like you, I would most likely only call with AA,KK,AKs, QQ.

Another school of thought is to buy in for the minimum and shove it in there, trying to double up. That's why its nice you can rebuy in a cash game.

If this was too frequent, would try a different table.
 
SPANKYSN

SPANKYSN

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push pocket pairs

People pushing all in with almost anything, even on FT. Pocket of pair is not good hand vs donk players, but vs good players can be.

I agree with you. I have far less luck with pocket pairs online in micro cash games or freeroll tournaments, but I tend to do better with them at live $1-2 tables.
 
supernuts25

supernuts25

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Not unless they have a bigger pair. I'd rather move all in with a made hand though preflop than a not made hand.
And although I don't have my statistics or percentages right off hand I believe I have won more moving in preflop with a pair vs no pair all in preflop
 
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