S
Syfted
Rock Star
Silver Level
Anarchy, this is a hypothetical live situation, not a real hand from an internet site.
The point is to show how we should be attempting to exploit even the smallest edges in a poker game. However, at some point the money involved will become so great that we become risk averse, at which point we should cash out, because we've lost our ability to exploit that edge. You shouldn't fear the variance.
Poker is a game of very small edges and failing to exploit them is a severe folly.
Also, Anarchy, you have no way of knowing whether or not someone threw away As or Ks... your calculations that we're actually way behind are very silly.
The point is to show how we should be attempting to exploit even the smallest edges in a poker game. However, at some point the money involved will become so great that we become risk averse, at which point we should cash out, because we've lost our ability to exploit that edge. You shouldn't fear the variance.
Poker is a game of very small edges and failing to exploit them is a severe folly.
Also, Anarchy, you have no way of knowing whether or not someone threw away As or Ks... your calculations that we're actually way behind are very silly.
Roller
Legend
Platinum Level
If you are running hot.
All in
If you are running neutral.
Fold
If you have been running not so hot.
Fold
I decide Coin Flips based on how I have been playing.
If I feel good about it.
I push All in.
If not I Fold.
A Small edge to exploit.
Everything being equal take whatever edge you can get.
All in
If you are running neutral.
Fold
If you have been running not so hot.
Fold
I decide Coin Flips based on how I have been playing.
If I feel good about it.
I push All in.
If not I Fold.
A Small edge to exploit.
Everything being equal take whatever edge you can get.
anarchy304
Rising Star
Silver Level
syfted. thank you for the input. i realize the variances. i also knew that it was a hypothetical question. poker is a math game about unknown variables, probabilities, and mostly logic. it's also a memory game, and psychology. ah well. thanks again for your response.
cardplayer52
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
you can buy in for 5% and if you double up you should be very close to 10% of your roll. at that point i don't think taking coin flips for it is a good idea.
Worak
Legend
Bronze Level
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
So you advocate playing progressively tighter as your stack increases?
OK how much tighter should I play when my stack reaches 120% of my buyin? How does my play become effected once my stack reaches 150%?
Why should stack size have any bearing in an equity decision?
If the odds are correct a call is mandatory.. if the odds are not correct a fold is required.
If you wouldn't call when your stack is 200BB then then why would you call when its 100BB? The risk to reward ratio is exactly the same.
More importantly, if having a stack of 200BB causes you to make +ev folds.. then why are you still sat at the table playing? Surely you already know that your stack size is now effecting your decisions and you should have left a while ago.
Jurn8
Legend
Silver Level
Equity is changing if its soooted aswell. I wouldnt stack QQ pre in a FR game tbh but if its HU I insta call.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.758% 56.55% 00.21% 69714036 260154.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 43.242% 43.03% 00.21% 53051544 260154.00 { AKo }
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.951% 53.73% 00.22% 22082460 89058.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 46.049% 45.83% 00.22% 18834720 89058.00 { AKs }
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.758% 56.55% 00.21% 69714036 260154.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 43.242% 43.03% 00.21% 53051544 260154.00 { AKo }
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.951% 53.73% 00.22% 22082460 89058.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 46.049% 45.83% 00.22% 18834720 89058.00 { AKs }
cardplayer52
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
i was trying to say if you buy in for 5% of your bankroll. if you just more than double up you now have 10% of your whole bankroll in front of you. at that point i would leave not play tighter. and buy in for what should be <5% of your bankroll at another table. IMO you shouldn't risk more than 10% of your bankroll on one hand. especially when it's a coin flip.
U
UFCcantstopme
Rock Star
Silver Level
No
Your friend is not insane, yes i know AK is only AK high, but in that situation a QQ vs AK is almost a coinflip. If you do not want to risk 10% of your br on a flip of a coin, than you would most likely fold the QQ. If you are a good poker player, you do not risk your tournament life or money on coinflips all the time, you play hands out and try to win the cash.
Your friend is not insane, yes i know AK is only AK high, but in that situation a QQ vs AK is almost a coinflip. If you do not want to risk 10% of your br on a flip of a coin, than you would most likely fold the QQ. If you are a good poker player, you do not risk your tournament life or money on coinflips all the time, you play hands out and try to win the cash.
B
BluffYou123
Back in the Game
Silver Level
If its 10% of stack it has to be a call.
He's on a 6 outer and surely it's worth 10% of your stack to KO him.
Even 10% br I'd be quite tempted to go for it.
No-one likes a coin-flip but in this case, I think, ya gotta go for it.
He's on a 6 outer and surely it's worth 10% of your stack to KO him.
Even 10% br I'd be quite tempted to go for it.
No-one likes a coin-flip but in this case, I think, ya gotta go for it.
AnthonyENG
Rising Star
Silver Level
ive seen it on line too, its crazy what people call with, QQ call imo.
L
lewis010
Rock Star
Silver Level
well, i think that qq is an insta call in the most situations, and as you see QQ is 55% to 45% vs ak so calling is the right option here
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
Shouldnt that be the other way around?
S
Syfted
Rock Star
Silver Level
It is NOT a coin flip. It's 55% to 45%. I'm arguing that your edges in poker are so small that you can't turn down ANY situation where you have the slightest edge. The nitty play you advocate is a huge shot to our EV.
Where do you draw the line? 60 to 40? 65 to 35?
P
pokermatch
Enthusiast
Platinum Level
It actually has some merit, but it really depends on the situation. If your
in a cash game and you have a huge bankroll, and you know that even
if you lose this, it won't cause some great dent in your games to come,
you definitly call. If you however dont... then you should fold, hell you
shouldn't be playing those stacks if you do. But lets say your in a tourney
and you are the second chip leader... and the chip leader has Ace King...
If you get nocked out there, you could lose it all, and it would be better
for you to fold a lot of the time, Especiallyyy if your a good player and
u know that most likely you will be able to win the tourney through out
the series of hands.
in a cash game and you have a huge bankroll, and you know that even
if you lose this, it won't cause some great dent in your games to come,
you definitly call. If you however dont... then you should fold, hell you
shouldn't be playing those stacks if you do. But lets say your in a tourney
and you are the second chip leader... and the chip leader has Ace King...
If you get nocked out there, you could lose it all, and it would be better
for you to fold a lot of the time, Especiallyyy if your a good player and
u know that most likely you will be able to win the tourney through out
the series of hands.
