Starting today I'm going to be folding pocket Kings to pre-flop all-ins if I'm not pot committed already. For about the last 15 times I've been all-in pre-flop with pocket Kings I've been up against pocket Aces and have not cracked them once. This has cost me about 15 buy-ins or so which is a big part of my bank roll to be throwing away on Kings. If any one has any amazing reason why I shouldn't be doing this please inform me. Other wise I'm going to be folding them until I get to higher stakes. I play at the $25 & $50 tables right now. But rarely ever does anyone go all-in pf with a full stack with pocket Queens or AK.

i look at it this way, there is only 1 hand in the entire deck that can beat you right now, so the odds of you being the favorite is very high, and the odds of you not being a favorite is very low.....i will gladly put all my money in PF with kings unless i strongly feel i am up against Aces....

but your arguement seems pretty valid so i do not know either

It just seems like gambling to me, especially when the vast majority of the time you're going to probably be against Aces. I mean c'mon let's be realistic here. The people who play at the 25 & 50 are average people and I think they know better than to blow a full stack gambling with Queens or AK. In fact I have seen this probably about 5% of the time as much as I have seen KK run into AA, if even that much, probably less than that much. I've lost several hundreds of dollars gambling with Kings like that pre-flop which is why I have to drop back down to the $25 tables. I just don't see any real ultimate reason to go all-in pf with Kings in a cash game like this without a read or knowing your opponent is LAG or has a small stack. Besides those 3 things I just can't bring my self to comprehend the logical reason behind 95-100% of the time going all-in pf with Kings. I'm a rational person and see no point in further destroying my bank roll gambling with them. So I'm interested to see what people have to say about this. I know what you're saying also wkonevich but realistically speaking, it looks good on paper but what are your results though?

It is gambling - but getting your money in when odds are probably in your favour - thats what its about. In my experience, KK wins more than it loses in pre-flop all ins. Most of the time you have opponents with JJ, QQ, AK, or worse. You are probably over reacting to a bad streak.

If you've got a read that there's absolutely no chance of the opponent holding anything other than AA then maybe it's a good policy.

In most games though, I'd expect hands like QQ and AKs (if not AKo) to be capable of making similar moves and would have thought that you'd be missing out on some value by not playing KK in those circumstances.

You've found a very specific niche if you've found players who'll only make that move with AA, and will make it every time.

After playing for around 2 years in a semi serious mindset, I have only ever folded KK preflop twice. and I was wrong to do so the first time when the guy showed me QQ. It normally screams aces at you if they do have them, otherwise you can't fold... its just like set vs set, its the reason you have a bankroll.

Originally Posted by TheJace

Starting today I'm going to be folding pocket Kings to pre-flop all-ins if I'm not pot committed already. For about the last 15 times I've been all-in pre-flop with pocket Kings I've been up against pocket Aces and have not cracked them once. This has cost me about 15 buy-ins or so which is a big part of my bank roll to be throwing away on Kings. If any one has any amazing reason why I shouldn't be doing this please inform me. Other wise I'm going to be folding them until I get to higher stakes. I play at the $25 & $50 tables right now. But rarely ever does anyone go all-in pf with a full stack with pocket Queens or AK.

Step back and have a rethink. Making a broad decision to fold KK pre-flop to a shove is taking a huge amount of profits out of your game. Ill assume that your using PT and PAce, and making solid notes on the reg's. I come across hands like KQ, AQ, JJ,QQ, AK, more often playing for stacks pre-flop than I have AA, and thats across all the limits ive played, including nl$50. There are of course players that Ill fold to almost any raise they make pre-flop unless im holding a pair, but there are also players out there that I can play for stacks with hands like AK and JJ that crushes their range. Post some hands, well have a look.

Never fold KK preflop, ever. Whenever I get dealt KK, I assume I have the best hand and try to get all my chips in preflop if I can. If someone else has AA, well, it just wasn't your day. Most of the time, like someone else said, the other guy will have QQ, JJ, 10 10, 99, AK, or AQ, all of which you have crushed. If you are under the gun at a full table with KK, which 8 players yet to act, 3.9% of the time someone else will have AA. Of course, as your position improves the odds of someone else having AA behind you decreases. So this means 96 out of 100 times when you have KK in early position, no one else will have AA. And 4 times out of 100 when you have KK, someone else will have AA.

Originally Posted by Bentheman87

Never fold KK preflop, ever.

Never say never, ever.

I'm actually going to be more specific, because I've seen these discussions before:
Point: weak-tight villain open-shoves 400BBs deep UTG.

Fold KK.


/end scene

more people seem to be pushing a-anything, so i think you're losing money not to play KK.

Sorry tenbob but I don't have any hands of this to post. I've just been tallying it up in a notepad document and the number has gotten so big It's made me come to this conclusion. But let me ask every one here one thing, if you lost 80% of your bank roll on pocket kings, what would your reaction be too? I don't know if the skill levels of the players at bodog has just magically went sky high and they only shove with Aces now, or if I've just had an encounter with Murphy's law or what...

Originally Posted by TheJace

I've just had an encounter with Murphy's law

^^

Originally Posted by TheJace

Sorry tenbob but I don't have any hands of this to post. I've just been tallying it up in a notepad document and the number has gotten so big It's made me come to this conclusion. But let me ask every one here one thing, if you lost 80% of your bank roll on pocket kings, what would your reaction be too? I don't know if the skill levels of the players at bodog has just magically went sky high and they only shove with Aces now, or if I've just had an encounter with Murphy's law or what...

Murphys Law me thinks. I read in another post that your playing almost full time. If thats the case im going to strongly advise cashing out of bodog, buying poker-tracker and poker ace and heading to Stars or Full Tilt (Stars for ring games). Try not to get too caught up in the hands, are you losing all these encounters pre-flop or are you getting involved in some big action with un-improved overpairs on the flop.

KK is a big winner for me, it was once a big loser, but post flop you need to learn to read flop textures better, and you have a small few pot controll issues from some of the HA threads ive seen you start. Bear with it, the variance will even out long term. Im on my 4th attempt at moving up to nl$100

strange thing. wondering why people at a $25/$50 level go all in preflop with AA. seems like a beginners play.
but: if you dont go all in with KK, there are only AA left, which will split the pot.
besides KK vs AA should come so rarely it shouldnt affect your bankroll

Jace - I feel for ya bro. You are on a bad run, of that there is no doubt. No matter what cards you play, what way you play them, nothing seems to win. I would suggest taking a break.

I'm having a similar period myself. I swear to god I have lost in the last 30 Sng's at least 10 times with pocket Aces when I've had all my chips in pf. Everytime I've lost to a board of 4 to a flush!!!

AK is another hand that I'm constantly losing with, usually against Ace rag! You can't just say I'm folding these hands, you have to play them. You can't fold KK pf, very rarely can you do this! Just accept you are on a bad run. Either take a short break or play something else, Limit or Omaha or play a few Sng's but at lower stakes. Just play something different from your regular grind. GL mate!

can someone explain why these things are allways happen in a row?
lost with AA for some weeks, never hit my draw, didnt get a pair in whole tounament etc.
then i have a run, win trip 6 vs trip A, draw the straights and flushes and got dealt KK 3 times in a row.
dont we play poker for that?

I'd shove with KK. Second best hand in the game?

Shove.

If only 1 player ahead of you is allin you gotta call no matter how many times they turn up the rockets. 2 players allin ahead of you you have to go with your reads. 3 or more I would fold every time.

KK<QQ Guess I should've folded

Interesting, but it would all depend on the situation and opponents....just folding every k-k pre-flop is leaving money on the table and out of your pocket...