Expected EV chart for different hold'em starting hands by position.

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Bentheman87

Guest
Poker Hands - Expected Value chart by position

I'm suprised that suited cards seem to gain so much value, I've always thought they made a very small difference, it's very rare to flop a flush and it's not that often you flop a 4 flush (I don't know the exact probability of flopping a 4 flush but it's gotta be less than 20%). Also I don't understand why some hands have positive EV in, say 6th positive, but negative EV in 7th position.

What do you guys think about this chart?
 
WildBullshark

WildBullshark

Guest
I'm not sure what assumptions were made in their calculations...but I think it's a joke. Anytime you fail to measure in unpredictable factors that every table offers, predicting the EV for a specific hand is ludacris. Obviously, a small pocket pair from early position has a higher EV in a loose game vs. a tight game (because of the times you flop a set and get paid off). There are so many factors that change frequently enough in the course of a game that should change your starting hand selection.

I think you could gain a little bit of knowledge from these types of charts if you are a beginning player. Anytime you can get a better perspective on the relative stregth of your hand as a beginning player, it can only help. But as you develop as a player, you will see that this chart will change dependent on your table, playing style, and table image (and other factors)!
 
J

jeffred1111

Visionary
Also, EV as a lot to do with how you play postflop (if you open shove everytime you flop that magical set, you're passing up on value, and what was a +EV proposition preflop can now be a -EV proposition).

Sklansky hand groups are, IMHO, a much better place to start for beginners than such a chart. % of times a certain hand hits hard and implied odds needed are also much more useful.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

Cardschat Elite
Poker Hands - Expected Value chart by position

I'm suprised that suited cards seem to gain so much value, I've always thought they made a very small difference, it's very rare to flop a flush and it's not that often you flop a 4 flush (I don't know the exact probability of flopping a 4 flush but it's gotta be less than 20%). Also I don't understand why some hands have positive EV in, say 6th positive, but negative EV in 7th position.

What do you guys think about this chart?

You are about an 8:1 dog to flop a flush draw, and about a 2:1 dog to make it by the river.
The neg EV for later positions (when positive earlier) is due to this chart being compiled based on "only" a million played hands. Clearly if a hand is profitable in 6th position it should be at least that profitable in 7th position, and you would expect to see that with a larger sample size.
Also, as other posters have pointed out, the play of the hands will effect these numbers (remember this is an actual compilation of a million hands, not a computer simulation). This could account for your larger than expected difference between suited and unsuited cards.
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Maybe I missed something, but what are the units? big bets? big blinds? I assume it's not a monetary amount.
 
brettantill

brettantill

Guest
They have created the table from actual results on Pokerroom.com

This creates the problem that the table is actually one of observed values and not an expected values.

So calling it an expected value table is incorrect.

Brett
 
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