Down 4.5 Buy Ins in 2 days...what's going on?

Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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So I've decided to be proactive and have been posting a lot of hands for you guys to analyze and I feel like I've learned a lot. I've been using PokerTracker3 a good deal and have been learning how to use its stats to my advantage.

Yet I'm down 4.5 Buy Ins in 2 days! I haven't played poker online in a month...so maybe that has something to do with it...


Last 7 DaysWin/LossSince Table Hours Real Hours BB / hr$ / hrstdv
Monday, Apr 7$ -24.90 2008-04-07 8.1 5.4 -91.9 $ -4.60±6.88
Sunday, Apr 6$ 1.59 2008-04-06 3.9 3.9 8.1 $ 0.40±4.21
Totals:
$ -23.31 12.1 9.4 -49.8 $ -2.49±6.12

I stopped playing today after my 5th bust. It's hard to say that 4 out of 5 busts today were bad beats...but that's how I feel even though I know they all probably weren't in actuality.



So, what can I post to help you guys help me? Any reports in particular?


I play $5 NL ShortHanded @ pokerstars
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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Help...

What does this say other than I lose too much @ Showdowns? In general my W$SD is 42.5 and 48.57 for $5NL and $2NL repectively.

reportfa1.jpg
 
Richyl2008

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Could be a leak or could be just a downswing, hard to say really, without more stats ,hand histories etc. You might wanna switch to full ring and play a tighter game for a bit, and see if that goes any better, as 6max is a lot swingier than full ring. Other than that just keep posting hand histories and maybe check out some of the videos on this site.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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What stats would you want to see?
 
Jagsti

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Post your general page showing your vpip/pfr/af etc, then after that post your ppostion page.
 
Richyl2008

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It depends how many hands you have in your database, anything short of 20k or so may be inconclusive, but by that point you can start to get a general idea of what you may be doing right or wrong. Position stats are very important as is your vpip,pfr and af, but there are also many other things to consider. Try checking this out The 2+2 Forum Archives: How to use Poker Tracker.
 
Jagsti

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Ok then a few things. Firstly, this is a really small sample of hands. Is this the total number of hands in your datatbase?

Anyways, some numbers you should be looking at. I'll take it you understand the abbrevaitions, if you don't then ask.

VPIP - you are too loose, playing too many hands. Your overall vpip is 33%. If your learning the game this is way too loose. For 6max aim for approx 16-20 vpip.

PFR - your PFR should be a few % lower than your vpip. What your figures are suggesting are that you are calling too much, because your playing too many hands. If your entering opening a pot you should be raising. If you have a vpip of 16-20, then your ideal PFR should be approx 3-5% lower.

AF - Your AF is fine anything 2-3 is ok.

Att to steal - this figure is too low. It should ideally be at 30+ for 6 max.

Blinds - You need to tighten up in the blinds, your completing from the sb too often.

Position - You really need to get a grasp of what hands to play form what position. Your way too loose form utg. You should be open raising from here most of the time and you should be playing this position tightest of all. You should loosen up gradually as you approach the button. The c/o and button are the positions we make most money ffrom because this is were we have best opportunities to steal the blinds. So if its folded to you and your in these postions you should definately be open raising a lot of hands.

As I said this is really a small sample to work with and maybe not representative of your true style. But based on the given figures, you need to tighten up a lot, and stop calling too many hands.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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Ok then a few things. Firstly, this is a really small sample of hands. Is this the total number of hands in your datatbase?
Yeah, that's it. I haven't played as if I needed to say that.
Jagsti;768198 Anyways said:
I'm basically playing what wizard of odds says are the top 20% of hands:
Top 20% of Hands in 6-Player Game.
  • Pair of sevens or higher.
  • Suited A and any 3 or higher.
  • Suited K and 7 or higher.
  • Any two suited cards both 9 or higher.
  • Suited Q and 8.
  • Any two unsuited cards both ten or higher.

What would you suggest I cut out? I also play some low connected suitors...if I can just limp. I also play all pocket pairs hoping for a set


PFR - your PFR should be a few % lower than your vpip. What your figures are suggesting are that you are calling too much, because your playing too many hands. If your entering opening a pot you should be raising. If you have a vpip of 16-20, then your ideal PFR should be approx 3-5% lower.
I have been raising pf with anything other than low connected suitors and pocket pairs less than 7s. Should I just randomly not raise sometimes?
AF - Your AF is fine anything 2-3 is ok.

Att to steal - this figure is too low. It should ideally be at 30+ for 6 max.
Attempts to steal...what is their definition of stealing? A large overbet? I don't steal often by overbetting, I just bet the pot usually if I'm bluffing.
Blinds - You need to tighten up in the blinds, your completing from the sb too often.

Position - You really need to get a grasp of what hands to play form what position. Your way too loose form utg. You should be open raising from here most of the time and you should be playing this position tightest of all. You should loosen up gradually as you approach the button. The c/o and button are the positions we make most money ffrom because this is were we have best opportunities to steal the blinds. So if its folded to you and your in these postions you should definately be open raising a lot of hands.
Yeah...I play every position pretty much the same and am a bit looser as the dealer. I know I need to play tighter as I move away from the dealer.
As I said this is really a small sample to work with and maybe not representative of your true style. But based on the given figures, you need to tighten up a lot, and stop calling too many hands.
Thanks :D
 
Stick66

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Yes, your VP$IP is too high and your PFR% is too high. At the stakes you play, I think it's OK for these to be a bit higher than normal. But not as high as yours are now. Jag says 33% VP$IP and I agree. Even 25-30 is acceptable at these stakes. Then go lower as you move up in stakes. Also judging by your comments on what you raise with, I think you need to get some poker books and learn how position affects hand value (Example: Raising low su-conns in early position is mostly not advisable).

Also, your W$SD is a bit low (especially at 5NL) which means your showdown quality is not good. You may want to study post-flop play by reading some poker books, also. Getting a read on your opponents & what they hold and comparing it to your own hand is also an important skill (Example: You should be able to lay down your pocket QQ before the river if an A or K or a likely draw is on the board).

Good luck.
 
vanquish

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attempted to steal = open raise preflop from button or CO
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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Yes, your VP$IP is too high and your PFR% is too high. At the stakes you play, I think it's OK for these to be a bit higher than normal. But not as high as yours are now. Jag says 33% VP$IP and I agree. Even 25-30 is acceptable at these stakes. Then go lower as you move up in stakes. Also judging by your comments on what you raise with, I think you need to get some poker books and learn how position affects hand value (Example: Raising low su-conns in early position is mostly not advisable).

Also, your W$SD is a bit low (especially at 5NL) which means your showdown quality is not good. You may want to study post-flop play by reading some poker books, also. Getting a read on your opponents & what they hold and comparing it to your own hand is also an important skill (Example: You should be able to lay down your pocket QQ before the river if an A or K or a likely draw is on the board).

Good luck.

Well I've read Harrington on Hold'Em Vol 1 and part of Vol 2. I do understand position effecting hand strength but I know I don't really implement much at all. I didn't know raising with everything but low connected suitors and low pocket pairs is a bad idea...

So what hands should I stop playing? Or should I just tighten up oop and that'll help bring my VP$IP down a lot.

I did notice my W$SD is lower than I would have liked. I suppose I need to be thinking more about what they could have to call/bet.
 
vanquish

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HoH (at least the older ones) are designated to teach you tournament play, not cash game play...
 
Jagsti

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Yeah, that's it. I haven't played as if I needed to say that.

I'm basically playing what wizard of odds says are the top 20% of hands:
Top 20% of Hands in 6-Player Game.
  • Pair of sevens or higher.
  • Suited A and any 3 or higher.
  • Suited K and 7 or higher.
  • Any two suited cards both 9 or higher.
  • Suited Q and 8.
  • Any two unsuited cards both ten or higher.
What would you suggest I cut out? I also play some low connected suitors...if I can just limp. I also play all pocket pairs hoping for a set

OK, you agree that the further away from the button you have to tighten up yes? Well your stats basically tell me that you play all of your starting hands from any position, there is no tightening up of that range. Your Vpip is virtually identical from all positions, sb excluded. Learning to play position is vital. There is no point open limping K7s utg, for that matter I wouldn't even be open raising. You should be looking at developing an opening range that is suitable from each postion up to the button.


I have been raising pf with anything other than low connected suitors and pocket pairs less than 7s. Should I just randomly not raise sometimes?

If you are opening up the pot, then try to raise it up. It's ok to call with SC's once someone ahead has already acted.

Attempts to steal...what is their definition of stealing? A large overbet? I don't steal often by overbetting, I just bet the pot usually if I'm bluffing.

As Vanq says, att to steal is open rasing it up from postion ie, cut off and button, in an attempt to steal blinds. Your range can usually be quite loose here, depending on villains.

Yeah...I play every position pretty much the same and am a bit looser as the dealer. I know I need to play tighter as I move away from the dealer.

Thanks :D

Anyways, read some of the strategy articles at the top of the page, and learn position, starting hand requirements etc. GL
 
Stick66

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So what hands should I stop playing? Or should I just tighten up oop and that'll help bring my VP$IP down a lot?
The answer would be the most common one given to most poker questions. "It depends." It would depend on:
  • Position
  • Stack sizes
  • # of players in the pot
  • Player reads
  • Your table image
  • ...and more.
Yes, the HOH's are tourney books. You need a basic hold'em book like "Small Stakes Hold'em". It's a more for Limit Hold'em, but I learned a lot from it regarding the above points. There's others, but this is the first one I personally read.
 
Deathwish238

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Thanks guys.

When trying to steal, how much should I raise? 10xBB?
 
Jagsti

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Thanks guys.

When trying to steal, how much should I raise? 10xBB?

I nearly fell off my seat when I read this :D, but then I realised your playing 2 + 5nl. The standard raise pf is usually 3-4xbb. However I think you may have to raise that up a little at your stakes b/c there will usually be more callers, and you don't want multi way pots really. When your raising or 3 betting you want to isolate. I'm not sure what the standard amount is at this level, maybe someone will come in and let you know. But I think 10xbb may be a little extreme, as when you do have a good hand, you may not get any action.
 
Richyl2008

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I'd try raising 3-4bb+1 bb per limper. I agree with Mr. Sticker about checking out the small stakes holdem book, it's also the first one i read as well. Even though it's based on limit it goes into great detail about pot odds, drawing hands, implied odds, reverse implied odds etc etc. A lot of concepts that are really universal to just about all poker games, and he explains it very well.
 
skoldpadda

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echoing the above, the biggest flaws I see are playing too many hands out of position and the need to tighten up a bit. Your VPIP should be higher the closer you are to the button.
 
Deathwish238

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I will check out Small Stake Hold'Em

I nearly fell off my seat when I read this :D, but then I realised your playing 2 + 5nl. The standard raise pf is usually 3-4xbb. However I think you may have to raise that up a little at your stakes b/c there will usually be more callers, and you don't want multi way pots really. When your raising or 3 betting you want to isolate. I'm not sure what the standard amount is at this level, maybe someone will come in and let you know. But I think 10xbb may be a little extreme, as when you do have a good hand, you may not get any action.

Well I generally always raise 3xBB if I'm not holding suited connectors or low pocket pairs. So I figure if I want to steal I need to be raising a lot more? If I don't want to steal I'ld keep it under 5xBB I imagine.
 
Jagsti

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I will check out Small Stake Hold'Em



Well I generally always raise 3xBB if I'm not holding suited connectors or low pocket pairs. So I figure if I want to steal I need to be raising a lot more? If I don't want to steal I'ld keep it under 5xBB I imagine.

You should generally keep your raises a standard size regardless whether you have AA, 22, 56s or K5o. If you vary your raises ie, 3xbb for sc's, 5xbb for AA/KK, and 6xbb for blind steals, then your villains will know pretty much know what you have. If you keep your raise size the same, then they can't tell if you have AA/22/56 or whatever.

You can vary your raises at a latter stage, but while your getting some hands in for experience, try to keep it simple and play solid TAG style.
 
Deathwish238

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Thanks a lot for the help. I suppose if I do raise a lot when trying to steal it will become obvious as to how I bet
 
aliengenius

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I'm down 8 buy-ins over the last two days. It's like a joke. You can't win.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

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lol. I've seen your thread, I don't know why you're done so much! It just must be a swing
 
B

bustme

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I am down 4 buyins every 3 day ore so. It is not bad play , just variance..........
 
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