Does a nitty style work?

[edge-t]

This has been on my mind for the longest time. While I've heard(never got higher than $100NL) that a LAG style works best on higher limit tables... I've always wondered about a nitty style on micro-low limits: $10NL-$100NL

Do you think it'll grow your bankroll in a slow and steady pace? Do you think it's actually a profitable style up to the $200NL FR?

 

[F Paulsson]

I don't know about higher NL tables, but it works surprisingly well at 6-max $5/$10 and $10/$20 limit hold 'em tables. The sheer aggression at these tables will chew up and spit out most players, except for the nits that just sit there and raise when they have it and fold when they don't. They probably miss a lot of EV, but they - or specifically one guy that comes to mind - has always been a solid winner that I know of.

It's perhaps interesting to note that the "nit" I'm talking about still plays a 19/15 game though, but that's pretty nitty compared to the rest of the 30/20 regulars. I'm at 27/19 or so nowadays.

 

[edge-t]

I don't know about higher NL tables, but it works surprisingly well at 6-max $5/$10 and $10/$20 limit hold 'em tables. The sheer aggression at these tables will chew up and spit out most players, except for the nits that just sit there and raise when they have it and fold when they don't. They probably miss a lot of EV, but they - or specifically one guy that comes to mind - has always been a solid winner that I know of.

It's perhaps interesting to note that the "nit" I'm talking about still plays a 19/15 game though, but that's pretty nitty compared to the rest of the 30/20 regulars. I'm at 27/19 or so nowadays.

Wow, but at that limit... isn't a regular player more observant than the micro-limit player say at .5/1 limit 6 max?

6-max table is too stressful for me... I can't handle the variance at this point of time. I'm still learning...

 

[F Paulsson]

Wow, but at that limit... isn't a regular player more observant than the micro-limit player say at .5/1 limit 6 max?

6-max table is too stressful for me... I can't handle the variance at this point of time. I'm still learning...

They're more observant, sure. But despite them having - presumably - the same read on this nit that I do, they just flat out can't believe that he will only raise when he has the goods. They have difficulty adjusting to his style because they're so used to playing other people like themselves (or me). I'm not better, mind you. I also pay him off way too much.

He shows a profit because he's the only nit in a game full of LAGs. You'd think that would make him stick out and make him easy to exploit, but most regulars at these games play 3+ tables and don't really have the energy to adjust to one single player - it's much easier to just play the same way all the time regardless of opposition. And that's why he gets away with it. It's funny this came up, because I actually just now made a blog post that I've been planning for awhile about how I need to think about how to beat these players that I see all the time, and he's one of my more common opponents. I don't have a very good strategy for dealing with him.

Yet.

 

[F Paulsson]

Actually, I need to make an addendum: He isn't "all" nit. He can bluff. He can call down light. He's a solid player. He knows what he's doing, he's just tighter in doing it than the rest of us. So it's not fair to call him a "nit" in the context of someone who will only play big pocket pairs and AK, because he still plays 20% of his hands, which is - by most standards - a lot. But at a table full of people who play 30% of their hands, he has an edge.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

FP touched on this but I'll state it explicitly - good table selection is absolutely crucial if you're going to make playing nittily work. Playing nittily at a table full of nits or good TAGs (or even good LAGs) will get you nowhere.

 

[edge-t]

Well, I usually select my tables with more than 30% flop seen and higher avg pot sizes. Usually if there's 1 or 2 loose aggressive players or calling stations, the better.

But I'd say a poker player can never progress far playing a nitty game right?

FP: If the opponents uses PT and PAHUD, I'm sure most of them would realise that he's playing a nitty game, 15% PFR, the range he raises with would probably be 88+, JT+, relative to his position in the hand. I'd say it's easier to determine his range than a 30/20 LAG.

Is it even possible to improve your postflop skills playing a nitty game? The way I see it, a nit(that's me) seem to play the cards more than the player. At least that's one problem I feel I'm having.

I know my problem, but I shudder when ever I know I should raise QJs when first in from the cutoff, or play a LAG game, calling a 4xbb raise with 98s for the implied odds offered by a TAG.

I've AA cracked by a LAG, calling with K6s and a myriad of suited hands from LP. However, I'm offering massive implied odds. I feel that I'm able to put my villain on a range of hands now, as compared to when I first joined this forum. but my postflop skills' nothing compared to some of the good LAGs I've met on $100NL(I know BR management... my bad).

Will I even go as far as $100NL playing a nitty game?

 

[edge-t]

I think this article from Ed Miller pretty much summarises my thoughts. Preflop Play: Take Off the Training Wheels · Professional Texas Hold'em Tips and Strategy from Noted Poker Authority

This is a post targetted to the posters who have been around for at least a few months. If you are brand new to poker, ignore this for now (but bookmark it and come back in two months).

How many of you still ask preflop questions like,

"How many limpers do I need to play..."
"Do I have the odds to call with..."

etc.

How many of you give preflop advice like,

"Without at least three limpers you have to muck..."
"You are getting 7-to-1 so you should..."

If you still think this way about preflop play, it's time to take the training wheels off!

Preflop play is NOT about "pot odds." It is not about how many limpers you have. Preflop play is about getting to see flops against players who will give you their money by playing poorly.

The goal of preflop play is to maximize your time spent playing after the flop against weak players and weak hands and minimize it against strong players and strong hands.

You make money in poker from your play after the flop. You've already noticed how poorly many of these players play after the flop. They put in tons of bets as huge underdogs. They don't put in enough bets as the favorite. They hemorrhage money after the flop.

When bad players limp in front of you, you should want to play with them. Say you have a hand like K4s, and two bad players limp in. You should WANT to play. Your hand has no advantage over theirs at this point. But after the flop, you will make good decisions, and they will make terrible ones. Your hand isn't good, but it is good enough.

Now you may decide not to play K4s even though you WANT to play. You might not play because you are in middle position, and the chance someone will pick up a big hand behind you is too high. You might not play because there are strong players behind you who can really interfere with your goal of playing against weak players and weak hands. But you should WANT to play. If you are on the button, then you SHOULD play because there's no one behind you to screw with your plans.

When it is raised in front of you (by a normal raiser) you should want to fold K4s. You are playing against a strong hand, and you want to minimize your exposure against strong hands.

If two strong, tricky players enter the pot in front of you, you DON'T WANT to play K4s. You want to minimize your exposure against good players.

You can play quite loose if you are sure you will only be playing against bad players and bad hands. Your superior skills after the flop can turn very marginal hands into solid winners.

I guess what I'm trying to say, a good LAG with great postflop skills will win money from a nitty or TAG anytime. A nit will never improve his postflop skills to the level of a LAG, simply because he sees too little flop. It's hard to get pass the 'starting hands chart' we all learn when starting out.

 

[F Paulsson]

FP: If the opponents uses PT and PAHUD, I'm sure most of them would realise that he's playing a nitty game, 15% PFR, the range he raises with would probably be 88+, JT+, relative to his position in the hand. I'd say it's easier to determine his range than a 30/20 LAG.

Definitely. His range is narrowed considerably. But despite "knowing" this most people - myself, to some extent, included - do not adjust properly. When you play 20k hands per month, and your "default play" is to 3-bet AJ from the button, you do that. Maybe later you realize that when the nit was the one who raised UTG that you should have folded, but most things are done so automatically that this doesn't occur to you. Regardless of HUDs and PokerTracker.

I'm not saying that people aren't aware that he's a nit, I'm saying that it doesn't matter that they "know" it if they don't play accordingly. And most people are too lazy to deviate from their default strategy because of one single guy at the table.

 

[AnnoDomino]

is nit a TLA? if so, what does it stand for?

 

[joosebuck]

super super tight aggressive. not quite weak tight, but "i've got it" tight.