Do ANY of u agree with Allsopp here??? I don`t!!!

zinzan1000

zinzan1000

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Careful Dooky, the play it by the book brigade will be baying for your blood soon.
All you have to do is comment that e-book poker has its flaws and they are on top of you.

They might call you a ranter, liar, ridiculous, and even a hijacker, so be careful.
 
Jack Daniels

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Careful Dooky, the play it by the book brigade will be baying for your blood soon.
All you have to do is comment that e-book poker has its flaws and they are on top of you.
What? Come on...we make one human sacrifice and now we're baying for blood? I'd say chanting for blood is reasonable, but not baying for it. :p
 
zinzan1000

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Id say baying is playing it down.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Is it too much to ask for people to stick vaguely to the actual topic at hand rather than start pointless whining with no relevant content?

Most players on the internet don't know nothing about odds!!
This is true, and is precisely the reason that playing the odds is profitable given good game selection.

One of the main flaws in Allsopp's 'plan' is that he is actively seeking TAG players. Now, I am generalising a little, but TAGs tend to be better poker players as a whole than any other group (you don't, for example, see TAGs regularly calling down with King high). Why would you want to play against better players? They are less likely to commit themselves with something like TP decent kicker, and yet Allsopp is claiming that "most of the time when you hit you will win a huge pot". This is simply not true, there will be times that TAGs ranges miss flops and they check-fold, there will be times when they hit a reasonable hand but givie it up in the face of big action and these occurences will hugely outnumber the times when you hit a huge hand and they hit a hand they are willing to go all the way with.

I guess I'm taking such exception to this because to someone not well versed enough to separate the important strategic concepts in your posts from the drivel (there are copious quantities of both), reading your posts could be very dangerous. Yep, sure, there's a time for playing low suited connectors, in MP/LP at a very weak-tight table, in the blinds against a habitual stealer, when a pot is limped 4-ways in front of you etc etc, but to suggest that you can profit so incredibly easily from utilising a much more carefree approach to such hands is wrong.

If there were no bad players in poker, your ideas would have much more merit. But as the situation stands there are plenty of terrible players out there and you appear to be suggesting that we avoid them and play better players (...or to quote you 'tight agressive ebook players'). Why? Our profit in poker in the long run equates to the sum of our mistakes less the sum of our opponents mistakes - why would we want to play people who know what they're doing?

I think you may also be suffering from somewhat selective memory, given that you don't use PT or equivalent. Many people complain about bad beats constantly occuring to them, when in fact it's just their memory 'forgetting' their wins and 'remembering' the big losses. I believe the reverse applies here, and you're conveniently 'forgetting' the hands where you hit nothing and check-fold, or the hands where you hit something but end up having to throw your hand away in the face of action and 'remembering' all your big wins when you flopped a flush against AA and so on. Hence your incorrect assertion that "most of the time" when you hit a huge hand you will get greatly paid off.

Invest in Pokertracker. If your comp specs are too low to run it effectively, invest in more RAM or whatever you need - you're talking about making lots of money and in another thread you seem to be scoffing at low limit players so why aren't you willing to pay for an upgrade and a utility which will help your online game no end? Anyway, get PT, play lots of hands, and post your stats for 87s etc. The results will probably surprise you.
 
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zinzan1000

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Is it possible to allow a user of this forum the right to voice their opinion, theory, thought process, and strategy ( Allsopp ) without being insulted and accused?
Break open his comments by all means, but lay off the stuff about hijacking, ranting, being ridiculous etc etc.
Afford this user their place in this community without the added BS, is it possible?
 
ChuckTs

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I have a question for you, Allsopp:

How does your style change with limit poker where implied odds (whether you ignore them or not) play a much smaller part? Do you still call raises with 67s?
 
zinzan1000

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He most likely doesn't play limit poker Chucks, but at least you didn't hound him in any way.
 
Jack Daniels

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Is it possible to allow a user of this forum the right to voice their opinion, theory, thought process, and strategy ( Allsopp ) without being insulted and accused?
Break open his comments by all means, but lay off the stuff about hijacking, ranting, being ridiculous etc etc.
Afford this user their place in this community without the added BS, is it possible?
Actually yes, it is very much possible. We see it all the time on the forum.
 
Jack Daniels

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Is it possible to allow a user of this forum the right to voice their opinion, theory, thought process, and strategy ( Allsopp ) without being insulted and accused?

Actually yes, it is very much possible. We see it all the time on the forum.
Just to be clear on my previous post...What I was saying is that it is possible to post, etc without being insulted and accused of anything.
 
zinzan1000

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Yeah sorry for the holdup, I was playing in an event that didn't allow Americans.
Not my fault for sure, but very enjoyable.
Its ok JD, 99% of what goes on around here is top notch, its the witch hunt 1% that troubles me.
Saying that, as I am not among those who wish to walk that path I am happy in my play where and when I like bubble.
Not my fault, I am only human after all.
 
Jack Daniels

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Now you're just spamming your post count. :p :p :p Flame, attack, abuse...something something. Ha. :eek:

:D ;)
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Back on topic, please.

To quote a PM I sent someone a few days ago...

To be clear about off-topic thread diversions, there's no actual rule on it so it's down to personal interpretation, but as far as I'm concerned any non-poker thread can go down whatever path the posters choose as long as the topic is not deliberately being hijacked. I do like to see poker threads stay relatively on-subject though.

Ok, seeing as someone doesn't seem to get it, I'm going to play a fun game called 'delete all off-topic posts after this'.
 
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zinzan1000

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I agree with most things Allsopp says in there rightful place, because I can .
 
Ronaldadio

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WOW, this has been a good `un???

What is the record for the number of responses to a thread???

I know I have beaten my own with this thread!!!

Going back to people having a go at others. I think it is always hard to express yourself well in a message board - if you look at some of the early entries to this thread by Allsopp he does seem to be adopting a `high and mighty` attitude, but he probably was not. The title to the thread probably did not help with the rants - I appologise for it :)
 
zinzan1000

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Yeah thats cool Ron, plenty of responses.
There would of been a few more if some of mine were not deleted, nothing rude you understand, just a clash of one ego.
I can only hope I don't incur another infraction while responding to your latest post, well done, you got it up and running big style.
 
mrsnake3695

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For those that are jumping on Allsop you should go back and reread all of his posts. He gives his reasonings for the way he plays and why it works. It seems some people are just picking out a small part of what he says and attacking it, when the entire strategy must be considered as a whole and not picked apart.

I use this strategy in NL cash Ring games and it works. Someone asked about limit and I doubt if it would work in limit and I never heard allsop say he used it in limit. Here's why it works in NL cash games:

1) You can get into most posts cheaply. Alot of times there are several limpers or at most a small raise with one or two calls. Basically you are getting pot odds for any 2 cards if you have position. In a typical NL game with a $50.00 buy in the blinds are .25/.50 Well worth .50 to possibly make $50.

2)It's easy to but someone on a hand. Usually, if someone bets preflop, they have a big pair or big ace or suited high cards. If you have lower cards and play them alot of things happen after the flop that can make you a winner. a) The flop comes low cards. Villan bets and you call. Like allsop said most likely he will check the turn meaning he has a big ace that didn't hit and you can take the pot with a bet. If he bets you can put him on a big pair and lay down. b) You hand hits and you make a big profit by either betting for value or trapping depending on your reads of your opponent. c) An ace hits and your bet representing an ace. If villan is playing a pocket pair he will most likely fold and you take the pot. I do this all the time, and it works alot more than the number of times he has an ace and calls or raises. But, if you believe he has an ace you can just give it up without losing much money.

3) It's easly to get away from the hand after the flop if you don't hit. Suppose you call a raise with ace-queen and the flop comes with an ace? Are you ahead or behind? You have no way of know and this can cost you a hugh pot by either calling down with second best hand or folding the best hand. If you have 8-6 and the flop comes A,K,9 you can easily give it up to a bet knowing you are most likely beat. However if the flop copmes A,8,6 you are in for a big payday to any big ace hand. That's why Allsop talks about wanting to have live cards. If you call a raise with high cards one of your cards could easily be dead. If a TAG player raises from early position what does he most likely have. Either A,K A,Q or a high pair. If you have A,J or K,Q you could easily be dominated and not know it. Put if you have 7-5 or 8-6 or something you can be pretty sure all your cards are live .

It is about profit long term and although you are putting more money in the pot and having to fold think of it has an investment. As an example, you will flop trips to a pocket pair about one 1 of every 7 times. If you are playing in a .25/.50 NL game wit $50 buy in and 7 times in a row a player with pocket aces raises to 2.00 and you call with pocket 2s. You fold to his raise when you don't hit a set but play the hand out when you do unless he is very perceptive or there is a real scarry flop you will get most of his money. so over all you called $14 to see 7 flops one of which you will make much more than $14, probably $50. Although you could certainly say that if you know your opponent has pocket aces you are making a mistake by calling with pocket 2s and you would be right in any given hand. But we are not talking about one hand we are talking about of the course of a session.

Anyway enough for now and if anyone is still reading this thread I am sure I have started a few more arguments, which is a good thing. We should all be constantly learning.
 
zinzan1000

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Thats a +rep for you snake man purely based on the fact that you can go beyond blindness, wtg.:)
 
Jack Daniels

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B

brutalizer

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why horrible or what

I love Allsops post that's hilarious. people that raise six times the big blind are begging for a call. It's a raise you could only make with Kings or Aces. When I see this raise I sit around for a little bit before I fold. I can just picture them sitting at their computer begging call call call call. Hilarious this is the absolute worst play in poker. You get aces or kings about one in every 110 hands they are just throwing that opportunity away. As for Allsop I can't wait to pick up a huge hand if I see you at the table. I love seeing that play made, it's beautiful. Fricking hilarious. You should absolutely never ever ever call this bet though you are sure to be an 85 to 15 dog or at best a 70/30 never call this bet it almost always means Kings or Aces. I repeat NEVER call this bet. Just have some fun with them and pretend you really have a decision and then sink their heart with the inevitable fold.
 
Bombjack

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Mr Snake / Allsop: do you just play this strategy at 10-seater tables, or do you play 6-max as well? What adjustments, if any, do you make to your strategy at 6-max?
 
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